David Paro (00:00.078)
Yeah, thank you. Appreciate you asking.

Steve (00:00.663)
Bye.

that did by the way did not as I was looking to the numbers just come on okay so we're all okay beautiful beautiful so let me go into my

David Paro (00:08.556)
Yeah, that means that's just a countdown to the recording. We're recording now. This is all I mean.

Steve (00:23.201)
Just kind of look at you for a moment. No agenda outside of the TGR, believe me you. So just give me a moment.

David Paro (00:26.541)
I get it.

Steve (00:52.631)
You know, there are all types of folk and stakeholders in the sports marketing industry. And there are those from my own experience, and I was just privileged to be at the right place at the right time in 1989 when I went over to Asia after working on Wall Street to learn Chinese, Mandarin. I was privileged by default to getting involved with every aspect of the sports marketing industry. You had no choice. There was no industry outside of Japan and a few other markets.

David Paro (01:08.174)
.

Steve (01:22.911)
And to be frank with you, when it comes to American colleagues and cohorts, there are very few times I come across folk who are really ingrained in the industry, but they're ingrained not in a unilateral way, which is nothing disparaging. A good agent is a good agent. But very often a good agent isn't an operational expert and cannot perform at venue putting together a major league broadcast professional sports event.

David Paro (01:38.03)
you

Steve (01:52.137)
or design very effective point of sale activity, or reach a global audience where you have 22,000 merchants, in the case of MoneyGram, where Dave Parrow was actually head of global sponsorship at MoneyGram. But over 20 years ago, coming out of a variety of jobs in the industry and entertainment industry, Dave founded an important organization called Deep Alliance.

And I came across Dave, I just want to put this on the table, because I believe transparency is everything. In our show just a few weeks back, we had Jim Andrews, who again, is one of the legendary veterans on the research side of the industry from IEG. And I had looked for audio about Jim that I could listen to to learn about him. And lo and behold, I came across Dave Paro. I did not know Dave at the time.

and Dave was a co-host and a very, very formidable one of a show Dave entitled What?

David Paro (02:59.062)
Wait what? SportsBizChat? Wait what? SportsBizChat? Yes. I got it. I'll learn your cues. I will learn your cues before the end of this discussion, Steve.

Steve (03:00.18)
Wait what? Thank you. Do you notice I was waiting? Wait what? With Tim McGee and I said, this is a guy who really knows the industry. And then I shared that with my CMO at SportsBiz, Dave Wharton. And then one of our other colleagues, Ben Gunning happened to know Dave and David is here. And what a distinct.

Pleasure it is to have you today on the transaction report.

David Paro (03:32.098)
Well, Steve, I appreciate that introduction. It means a lot. I can't say enough about Jim Andrews, having spent so much of my career in the Chicago area. He indeed, to me, is an absolute legend. And one of the things that I love about Jim, and I listen to your interview with him, how quick he is to credit Lisa Uekman with the founding. And he always does that, even though his legacy is so sealed as to what he contributed to building what I

Gee whiz.

Steve (04:02.049)
You know, I'm so, so glad you shared that because when I listened to him on your program, I had the exact observation. And I said, here we are 25 years later, and he's still giving what I would call in a very spiritual way, the obligation, if one will, to honor those who he feels taught him perhaps or brought him into an industry.

David Paro (04:26.444)
Mm-hmm.

Steve (04:28.489)
and hence 25 years later he's still in it. I was almost gonna say it to, and I think I even made a comment perhaps during the interview, but he in his own right obviously became his own entity, his own iconic brand, and what a wonderful way to start off the interview with learning of your observation. Because I heard him say it on your program, he said it on my program.

David Paro (04:48.494)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Steve (04:51.275)
And I thought for a man who's gotta be, I imagine somewhere around 50ish or plus that, I don't know, let's say he's in his 40s. Whatever he is, it's all beautiful. But at the end of the day, he's obviously been out of there for a while and obviously created his own brand identity. But you, what I found so wonderful is I don't come across that many great webinars or great podcasts for my own consumption where I...

David Paro (05:09.143)
Mm-hmm.

Steve (05:20.445)
say to myself, you know what, I learned something and not only did I learn something but I actually enjoyed the banter, the querying, the ability to comment in a way that had material contribution to the discussion. That's obviously you David in your media identity.

David Paro (05:39.896)
Well, first of all, thank you for that. know, the podcast that I do with my good friend and industry peer, I guess, Tim McGee, I mean, we've had unbelievably closely paralleled careers, which I don't know if that's necessarily good for what we do, but banter, you said, we definitely can banter and we can banter about anything, whether we're on air.

But yeah, we do feel we listen, we try to bring something a little different. We try to do it like a a sports regular, like a sports talk show, but talking about the sports business and bring that type of passion. Because as I said at the beginning, you know, this, I, this idea of building programs that match a brand with a property in the simplest terms, and then those things that help you bring your customers close to it. That still is so exciting to me after 25 plus years in this business.

It still excites me whether I'm pitching an idea or whether we're executing or whether we're doing the wrap-up report. So talking about the world of the sports business, and we go broader than sponsorship, but that's where my rooting has always been. And it's just, it's easy to talk about it because you come off of this world series that we just had, the thrill of that world series.

And the fact that then MLB has to go into this new CBA discussion pretty soon. And are they able to capitalize on what's been going on with the WNBA, you know, new rule changes in Premier League and all these things are just like to me, I can't talk about that stuff enough. It's fun. And to have a partner like Tim, who's so smart and so quick and he makes me laugh every show. I, you know, it's just been a, it's just been a great enjoyment to have that.

outlet and I've always liked to have creative outlets.

Steve (07:30.071)
You know, when I made that intro, what was on my mind, and just a few of the points is that you were director of alliances, US Sports Alliances at McDonald's, you headed up global sponsorship at MoneyGram, you worked at Clear Channel Entertainment, you have Deep Alliance, you're marketing for 25 years, you have many other roles and positions, and you're not in any way, which to me is what we're gonna get into now, we can get really granular.

And that's the goal of TTR is helping really ultimately expose where is there opportunity to get more out of sponsorship and prevent churn. And let's go to one example. And what I learned today, I have to be frank with you in prepping for this discussion, I will always tell you I did not know the story of MoneyGram, right? I know the brand.

David Paro (08:22.02)
Mm-hmm.

Steve (08:24.009)
I read about its history now, which I found fascinating from an acquisition standpoint and the hands from which it transited routinely and its stock price, which was absolutely astronomical up until the OA crisis and to see frankly, a victim of the subprime industry. But my point is not about the company itself. It's about that last comment about

David Paro (08:26.378)
Thank you.

David Paro (08:45.741)
Mm-hmm.

Steve (08:52.439)
how companies come into the industry, very often very bright-eyed, and very often lead it without a bushy tail. It's been actually extricated from the backside, and they leave, if you will, let's put it that way, the tail between the legs, because what the expectation was of sports marketing became very much at times,

the Emperor without any clothing. And when I look, and again, this is not a perfect example, but we saw multiple brands come into the Haas team in Formula One prior to MoneyGram. And within a matter of just a few years, you had two title sponsors come and go. Now again, there are more complex reasons than quote unquote dissatisfaction with sports marketing. But from a brand side and an ownership side and selling side,

David Paro (09:43.182)
Mm-hmm.

Steve (09:47.787)
And for consumer side, it's not easy. It's not easy when you have three title sponsors of one property at the level of magnitude of F1. And so you came in, they're still with it. And obviously you've done something right since you guys came in a few years back.

David Paro (09:52.78)
Right.

David Paro (10:07.362)
Well, there's a lot to unpack with this and I may end up revealing some things that haven't been too publicly discussed yet, although there's no hidden secret. So the two sponsors that you mentioned that came, that were before MoneyGram were problematic. There was...

I just lost you, Steve.

David Paro (10:44.942)
Do want me to like start the answer again?

Steve (11:07.112)
Human error, my bad, sorry to interrupt you. I hit the wrong button. I can go ahead and start the answer right where we were without you having to ask it Absolutely, 100%. No, you just pick up. Wait, Ryan, are we recording? We are recording. Okay, great. Thank you. So there's a lot to discuss in that. Actually, hold on. Hold on, dude. Yeah.

David Paro (11:08.974)
Yeah. I can go ahead and start the answer right where we were without you having to ask it again if that's okay with you. Okay.

So, yeah.

David Paro (11:28.782)
So there's a lot to discuss in that kind

Steve (11:37.032)
because I think you're at the walk speed. okay. You can't change while see it. This can't be changed while recording.

Yeah, and by the way, David, if you don't, by the way, do we call David or David? I usually use David, but I don't mind either way. And just for the record, you you can, you you treat this any way you want. The objective was to get us into the concept of stick to it.

David Paro (11:53.302)
I usually use David, but I don't mind either way. either way that you'd pull it out.