Steve (00:10.889)
There are certain people who you kind of know from the get-go. You're growing up with them and you say, the guy or gal, he has his act together. And while they're not methodical to the point that it takes the fun out of affairs, they've got a vision. And that vision is very clear to them and it might not, they're not prophetic. They don't know everything that they're gonna do in their life.

But they're very clear about what they have to bring to the table and what is needed at the table. And they're not bringing kosher dills to some festive affair somewhere in Bombay. They understand their market. They understand what's needed. And they understand what food they can prepare to bring and be seen as the consummate chef.

And I would say without a question from what I've learned, Dan McGowan, many of my partners here at SportsBiz have shared with me that this is one of those industry veterans who really gets the business of sports on a duality. That's technology, that's understanding consumer, and I'll add one more obviously from the consumer standpoint, understanding those trying to reach the consumer, the brand sponsor.

And with that said, Dan, what a pleasure it is to have you on the transaction report today.

Dan MIgala (01:41.058)
Yeah, thank you and thank you for the kind introduction too. It's an honor to be here.

Steve (01:45.397)
Well, you know, it's a feel. You get a feel for someone. And if I misrepresented your character in any way or your persona, if I, of course, I didn't capture it in its entirety, that would take all of your years of life. But certainly that's what it appeared to me in prepping for today's discussion. And there are so many points of entry, but I'm going to start with one on more of a philosophical level.

You wrote a piece for the Sports Business Journal not too far back in February, I believe, of 2025. And one of your 10 points of living a meaningful life, if you will, or seven habits of highly effective people, this was your 10. And one of them was about, it was the last one, I believe, about family. That whatever you do, there's gotta be sobriety in knowing.

that if I remember one of the comments, and I'll paraphrase, ultimately your positions in life in corporate America change. But you certainly don't want your family to.

How does one in a world where you have the likes of Jensen Huang, one of the three founders of Nvidia, whose stock, by the way, just busted 200, and I told a very important person in my life at $94, buy as much as you can, just six months ago, when he says, there is no off time, I work seven days a week, there is no such thing as not thinking about Nvidia, yet your article,

demonstrates really a radically different approach to living life. I'd love to learn more about that.

Dan MIgala (03:23.896)
You know, I think, and I appreciate that question too, because I think it's an elephant in the room for a lot of us in this industry where we fall in love with our titles or certainly, you know, the sports business allows you, you know, a unique sense of self and, you know, that part of it. But what I learned early in my career was the people that I really gravitated toward seemed to really have a deep understanding

Steve (03:26.58)
Thank

Dan MIgala (03:54.026)
of frankly, their own life outside of sports. And what I realized is those are the people that were really well positioned for the longterm. And what I learned from them in particular was pursue a lifestyle, maybe not a job, and bring your family along for the ride. And I think this industry allows you to do it. I'd give the example of my son and daughter.

A lot of the clients that I've worked with, they know with our kids and that's really important to me versus try to separate the two. And I also think to be vulnerable even with my kids and my wife, when things don't go well, that's also part of the drill that you can be really authentic and honest versus maybe a blind side and

my wife didn't know what was going on, right? And I think that's really critical to treat them like it. I will say this too, I'm a big believer in mission, vision, values and culture. Our family has those in the same way that you would and they kind of understand that you're a team versus maybe dad goes to work and that was probably maybe the generation that you and I grew up with and kind of know what your dad does and you don't and.

It's a totally different vibe and it's just a joy to be able to create that.

Steve (05:23.134)
You know, as I think about Jensen, it is interesting having tried it myself. 30, boy, it must be going back around five years. And we will look back at 35 years. I was working seven days a week, literally somewhere between 14 and I would say 20 hours a day. And my doctor asked me when I was actually living overseas in Asia.

I came back to New York to see my folks and went to see a doctor for a checkup. And he said to me, Stephen, how old are you? said, Dr. Gobi Nathan, I'm 29, about to be 30. And he said, young man, keep that up. Very good job. You will not make it to 40. And it changed my life hearing that. And so I realized as I'm speaking with you in this conversation that Jensen Huang is like the guy when we were kids and we had a friend who was very young and he was smoking.

Dan MIgala (06:07.703)
I didn't even know it.

Steve (06:18.548)
He says, my granddad is 102 years old and he's been smoking three packs of cigarettes a day. And the only problem is at that age we had never taken statistics and we had never learned about something called an outlier. And this would be outlier of outlier of outlier. So Jensen clearly is not the paragon. He's not on Mount Rushmore of what we want to emulate because most of us will just fry and either go six under.

Dan MIgala (06:23.437)
Yes.

Dan MIgala (06:32.705)
Totally.

Dan MIgala (06:43.278)
Thank you,

Steve (06:47.238)
or we'll just simply burn out and never have the ability to do the job that we love.

Dan MIgala (06:50.636)
Yeah. And you know, it's interesting for what I get to do of just understanding fandom. You know, my wife, my kids, like, bringing them along for the problems and solutions too is also incredibly gratifying. yeah, it's not like the dad's got to go to work and he's got a briefcase and now I'm going to think to take a walk with the dog and be like, what do you think about these jerseys or?

Steve (07:09.3)
Thank you.

Dan MIgala (07:20.748)
You know, all of that, that's also a great gift where, you know, where does work end and begin sometimes and in a creative mind, you're kind of always on, but you know, you can just like welcome those ideas maybe creatively rather than like force a brainstorm or, you know, stay late with pizza in the conference room, so to speak, you know, chasing that one big idea that sometimes just needs some time to manifest.

Steve (07:50.493)
You know, in the industry that we're in, it is because we've made our passion our profession. It's very hard to turn off a passion. So before we, you nicely segued into the word fandom. So I'm excited to, motivated to talk to you about that, but I am interested to understand because it really perhaps will be one of the most important takeaways that we could have from a discussion like this, which is

many people on the brand side, many people in our industry, various stakeholders who watch this program. At the end of the day, when something is your passion, to draw the fine line between passion and addiction could be a polemic that one could have with another for many, many days on drawing that distinction between passion and addiction. And sports marketing,

for me has been a 36 year passion borderline addiction. How do you prevent that? What have you done that has worked to prevent making it monolithic?

Dan MIgala (09:06.066)
I mean, I think I play guitar and I'd give the analogy of a songwriter that every time that you go to write a new song, one, you're humbled by the process, the genius of it, and really reflecting on creating something. And I think as a sports marketer, every time, you know, it's, like the old quote of, I like the Joe DiMaggio story of

The reason he wore a suit is somebody might be seeing him for the first time, a young child, right? And if you really think about fan growth strategy, you're always targeting from that first spark and be it through a live interaction, a digital engagement with a fan or whatever it might be. So I think it really warrants that. And I think I go back to...

Steve (09:37.844)
Hmm. Hmm.

Dan MIgala (10:00.332)
myself as a kid or things that I fell in love with as an adult. It's really that butterfly moment of like almost like a first date, you know, that you're having with fans and new audiences and all of that, that you have to have that discipline and that rigor that these are really like snowflakes. They can't like, you can't duplicate the same thing. And I think that's where, at least for me, that's where the lack of burnout.

is, is just not even welcome in the room because I'm just passionate about finding that one thing that triggers a spark. and the data digital side is it's an incredible sandbox to play in because you're getting kind of immediate gratification, of what's working, what's not. and that to me is where maybe my passion evolved of like the business side of it.

It started out with a passion for the field of play, and now it's like, love the fact of something that I can do resonates with a young boy or a single mom that's gonna get a memory for them that's gonna add impact on their life. And that's probably what I pursue more than just the repeating the same process over and over again. That's where the boredom would set in for me.

Steve (11:26.526)
Good, let's go into the bowels of that then. So first of all, how do we know that a single mom, I feel like I'm speaking now to the candidate of mayor of Minneapolis or Denver, I should say. So with a single mom or that young man, young boy, first and foremost in the sports marketing realm, how did you know it resonated? Give us an example of something that you knew you did and it resonated.

Dan MIgala (11:48.492)
Yeah, we were with Forefront, we were running a lot of paid media strategies for sports and entertainment properties all over the world. And one of the groups that we worked with, which was really outside of my comfort zone, was Cricket Australia. Growing up in Chicago, I didn't know what cricket was and all of that. But we were really tasked with

Steve (12:09.845)
for me.

Dan MIgala (12:17.07)
you know, launching a new league. The easiest way to describe it to an American audience would be if Roger Goodell started arena football, but Patrick Mahomes and, you know, Caleb Williams played in this league, faster paced version, really designed to get higher scoring. So the audience was really kids on kind of a pathway of fan development as an example.

and we needed to target moms. And as the decision maker, and these were marketing towards non cricket fans, we were trying to invent a new audience and we were experimenting with digital and we did all of the things that you would expect to do, featuring star players, come see the stars in a new form of the game. And then we really thought like a mom and we started picturing ads of

kids and families holding hands at a game. And we used the copy, you can't make a memory watching the game on the couch. And then we started serving those ads and we realized it was resonating. But here's the other data point. It was resonating only late at night, 7.30 PM after mom had been on Instagram for five minutes. And what the data told us was mom's too busy.

to buy a ticket in the middle of her day. You gotta wait till she's maybe put the kids to bed, sat on the couch, has a moment to exhale. And we learned what I call the art, heart and science of the strategy where we had the right creative message. We were emotionally connected to mom and we had the data to predict and back it up. And that's a fun feeling, Steve Lake of just, you know, when you are almost like an investigator and now you've got the data to do it.

And that league really became one of the top global leagues in terms of attendance, but also for moms. And that's a tough audience to get. They're busy and all those things. So I love that kind of process of tinkering, getting it right, learning, pivoting, audibling, all those things together to get to that eureka idea that generates not only, I call it a double bottom line. It's...

Dan MIgala (14:41.944)
the return on investment for the tickets sold, but it's return on inspiration as well for fandom and creation with the mom and her kids as well.

Steve (14:52.405)
Just very briefly, if you don't mind, I just want to probe one thing. Having done a lot of business in Australia, because I was based in Asia, Far East for 13 years in the industry, I'm curious how a man in the industry in Chicago with no cricket background ended up being tasked by the Roger Goodell of Australia and the Patrick Mahomes playing in it to actually come in and guide them on their target marketing to fill the venue.

Dan MIgala (15:12.718)
It's a great question.

Dan MIgala (15:20.75)
Yeah, it's a great question. And I kind of wondered the first time we were getting on a plane to go there, but it shows you the power of relationships and kind of the global community. I grew up a lot working in Major League Baseball, and there's some parallels between baseball and cricket. And there was an American, Mike Young, who's a former Chicago White Sox coach who was the fielding coach for Australia.

for Cricket Australia. So kind of think about this renegade specialist that was brought over there and the Roger Goodell of Cricket Australia, James Sutherland, said, we really need to get some exposure to American sports marketing. Can you call your friend in baseball and ask? And he called Roland Heemond, who was the White Sox longtime executive.

And Roland said, I got just the kid for you. It's Dan McGalla and eventually Josh Kreitzler and myself at Forefront. And we went over there. And the interesting thing was, I think like sometimes the biggest risks are on both sides. And that was a risk for them to bring us on. I it was a risk for us to work in a sport in a country we knew nothing about. But I think, you know, as a passionate sports marketer, what a sandbox to play in.

where you didn't know anything about it. And it just made you better tactically and you started from really ground zero and it was an incredible experience.

Steve (16:53.481)
It's interesting and also Australia being the sports capital of the world, think, perhaps viewers who have not been over there, they have every major possible sport played and every major event in that sport is played in that country, basically. They have some of the finest sports events in multiple cities, obviously Melbourne being one of the truly great centers of professional sport and Sydney, of course.

and in some ways, Perth. So that must have been a heck of experience to have done that.

Dan MIgala (17:25.038)
It was incredible and it made me so much better as a thinker, a marketer, an innovator to do that. And actually I try to apply those lessons working on team and league strategies that I'm familiar with of what if we didn't know anything or how would you do this through the eyes of a child?

Steve (17:45.654)
You know, when we look into the eyes of a child, so more of a Richard Feynman approach is a great way to approach life. And I have violated that for virtually all of my life. I was one of those guys who, when he learned something, I liked going into the weeds of the weeds with it. And then you find out that people have no idea what you're talking about. And then you didn't know what you're talking about because you tried to explain it to people, but you couldn't succeed and people didn't understand. And then of course, Richard Feynman.

always speak to someone as you're speaking to a real youth, you know, six, seven, eight year old. And if they can't understand it, it's your communication, not the child's problem. And when we look at sports marketing, I'm going to make an analog here. If you think about the sports marketer, for so many reasons, you have a lot of challenges that are perennial in our industry. And we could get into so many areas of A,

Even McKinsey studies and Deloitte studies saying, you know what, the same mistakes are being made every year. Brands simply have never gotten a stranglehold over how did they do and how are they going to improve. Very often they're getting into that cycle of just because they have many events or many partnerships with leagues or athletes or events or venues. And it's just keeping up with the execution.

So the operational execution becomes so overwhelming that it becomes a job and I mean, it truly is a job in itself, but the maximization, the activation maximization, it just, it's hard. It's a really hard undertaking. It's a very timely undertaking. And very often when they're using third party agencies, not everyone is gonna be like Dan.

So it really is personality based and it's expertise based and how did you get in that hierarchy within that group? If you could, and I'm not big on lists, but give us the three, I wanna straddle two areas, but I wanna go first on the sponsorship execution side and then we'll go over to the technology side. If you could look at the three areas that you've routinely come up against.

Steve (20:01.205)
in meeting with brands and I understand that we always say in our world here at SportsBiz that there's the opportunities in our industry is that there are no industry standards basically for the sponsor. It's very much case to case who the agency is, who's the internal decision making team, who's the execution team, where are they based? There are so many factors what industry are in there and it's different company to company on how they go about their sports marketing. So what would be some big three?

what are those big three that you could think of where brands, if you could just wave the magic wand and they became overnight successful in, you think would make them better at sponsorship, but also prone to stick with it longer, get more out of it most importantly. And at the end of the day, have collective buy-in from C-suite on down.

Dan MIgala (20:55.008)
So a couple of things building on that and it's a great question and it needs to be asked and it needs to be, you know, I think part of the process. Probably the first thing that I would say is I think the question that needs to be asked in all sponsorship and in property discussions, what would you do if you owned the brand and the property?

And that level of creative freedom and alignment that if everybody starts there and you're really pursuing the art of possible versus I'm going to present you this, you're going to respond with that. I'm going to tell you, no, I'm going to tell you that the league can't do this or that's, you know, blah, blah, blah. But if you started with a real open-ended question and you really collaborated and, you know, you're able to think.

with an organizational mindset and kind of shared goals, that to me, those are the ones that I look back and those are the ones that win awards. Those are the ones that get renewed. Those are the ones that impact people's lives at a level that is unimaginable and moves the needle. And that's the first one. What I also think about conversely is then when things go wrong and I get the call,

my team used to joke that I was like the Wolf from Pulp Fiction that I would be brought in to go clean up messes after sponsorships aren't working. You're six months in and we need some creative ideas. And what I realized is nobody really asked that question. And then you can, you can still pivot, but you're like, why aren't we getting the results? We've got the signs, we're executing the contract.

Steve (22:32.052)
Dan MIgala (22:48.312)
but we're still number eight in awareness in the market or whatever that is. And I think it just starts.

Steve (22:53.973)
By the way, I see the resemblance to Harvey Keitel. You're personifying, it's coming across, he's knocking at that door, very politely enters.

Dan MIgala (22:57.72)
Yes.

Yes. Yes, exactly. I'm a silent assassin like that. But what you realize is, you know, there was a transaction and now it needs, you know, that real ability to do it. I think the second thing that I would say...

Steve (23:06.866)
You

Steve (23:17.841)
I want to just meditate on that for one sec.

It's an interesting reference to the pulp fiction Harvey Keitel character because he went in to clean up the site of a terrible atrocity. There was massive bloodshed and he was successful at sanitizing. He was a sanitizer. So I want to make sure I understand that role you had. The role you had was really not

putting the house back into order so that someone can come in and not see a crime scene. Am I correct in saying that your role was to come in and say there is a crime scene, but we need to elevate this to a place of healthy living?

Dan MIgala (24:10.22)
Yeah, basically the analogy was that it's to clean up a mess to a certain degree and make it better. And I think part of that was if one of those larger deals wasn't working in the same way that it should have, you don't want everyone else to know that it's not working. everybody lives by the recap and sometimes...

you know, maybe the person servicing the deal isn't the person that sold it. And they're realizing now these are probably not the right assets to get the result. And we need to get ahead of it now. So, you know, that was it. But then it just goes back to servicing the needs of the outcome, you know, which we would get to.

Steve (24:57.887)
But you got what you got though is you you remedied. I just want to be clear so I understand what we left with. If I were the brand, you weren't sanitizing. So C-suite would say, what a wonderful event we just had. You went in to reassemble, correct, recognize what could work, what did not work. And in the process, the brand was in a much better position to succeed with the property or vice versa and vice versa.

Dan MIgala (25:04.91)
Totally. Yeah.

Dan MIgala (25:12.77)
No.

Dan MIgala (25:16.824)
Yes. Yes. Yes.

Dan MIgala (25:24.942)
Yeah, I actually think in that moment too, you know, because maybe things weren't working and people were more open to creative solutions as a result of that. So, and I think if you start with that with an open mind, art if possible, again, favorite question is, what would you do if I owned this brand and the property and you started from there versus having to bring that oxygen into the room where after it's

Steve (25:51.283)
Yeah.

Dan MIgala (25:54.722)
you know, maybe some therapy, right? Like, or whatever that analogy would be. yeah, yeah, totally. And, you know, like, I think part of that, and let me, maybe I'll give to your second and third bullet point, I think part of great innovations, someone should feel uncomfortable at some point.

Steve (26:00.118)
Do say that as well to the team, to the rights owner? Yeah.

Dan MIgala (26:23.178)
in the process, because that means you're doing something that's never been done before. And when you're talking about breaking through in an environment that's cluttered and busy and brands are trying to engage, I think oftentimes when somebody feels uncomfortable, if that happens to be the loudest voice in the room, creativity walks out the door sometimes. And actually I've learned that that's a great thing. And I've said that to team owners of like,

Dan, you're out of your mind with this thing, right? Or like whatever that might be. And I was like, you're wrong. And here's what my experience tells me. The fact that you feel that way means that you're going through the emotion of doing something that's never been done before. And therefore, it's going to be really powerful and resonate with the mass market. I have a good friend, Emily Prazer, who's the chief commercial officer of F1.

And I was talking to her about their Lego activations and they have a sponsorship with Lego, again, driven by the strategy of trying to engage with younger audiences. And they came up with the idea to create Lego trophies and to actually have Lego F1 cars. Talk about making people feel uncomfortable. Try to tell the drivers that, right? But in the end, the joy of the drivers.

driving these things that would trace them back, engaged with the demographic in terms of authenticity. Wow, incredible. By the way, they're winning awards left and right. But if you go back to that moment of somebody kills that because it makes you feel uncomfortable, that's Emily leaned into that, right? And that's a powerful, powerful reminder of that.

Steve (28:12.489)
Before you go to the third point and agreed, I think that campaign was done very effectively. And the idea of seeing six Lego cars, I believe it was six, if I remember correctly, with I think 20 miles per hour velocity, it was a wonderful, wonderful, yeah, it was a wonderful execution activation for a brand that seems to do so many things right today.

Steve (28:41.661)
What I've tried to get my head around for so long is it, and maybe there just isn't an answer that's gonna satisfy me because I care so much about the brand's investment that sports marketing should be effective for the brand. That this tool...

as one of the strategic tools in that tool chest of many ways a brand attempts to reach its target market and buy into that mindscape in an authentic fashion. Well, I'm of the opinion, and I know you are too, and I would believe all of our viewers that sports marketing is one of the consummate tools to do so.

But again, that idea of building Lego cars or your idea of putting a tailor-made golf club in a baseball stadium that is X number of feet high, whatever that number was, grand, grand golf club that you could use as the left field pole, out of bounds pole. That requires, again, a variable input.

And that very little input is the human being for the moment who has the ability to have a creative essence, a human relation skill expertise to navigate this discomfort zone that you just mentioned a team owner might've had, because you were propositioning that individual with an idea that the person, it was way out of their comfort zone. So I know you're writing a book coming up that has kind of a Dale Carnegie essence to it. So.

And I notice in your writing you deploy very much what he wrote in how to win friends and influence people, which is essential in human relations. But not everyone is you. Or some other folk who have been our show. And there are some who have really excellence in this area. Not many, but some. So how do we transcend my reliance on Dan as a sponsor? And I guess that's the critical path conclusion.

Steve (30:52.209)
when a brand comes into this industry it is so can be so personality driven both internally and externally. I'd love to hear how you how you take to that.

Dan MIgala (31:06.604)
You know, it's really interesting. what I would say for me in my own career, you know, I felt like I did a, know, those creative examples. And then what you realize is innovation to me is really about, it's not that eureka moment of just having that idea. It's really about collaboration and bringing other voices and people into the room.

and I think really Steve, the constant thread there is, understanding what great is and having the courage to not settle for good. And if you set the standard that we want greatness and whether you're in finance, whether you're in whatever, you know, category, subject matter, expert line, if that's the pinnacle goal in a sports sponsorship or sports marketing,

You just can't fake that then too. And it's constantly.

Steve (32:05.941)
But is it that I need to interject for one moment, core point, but as I listened to you, Dan, it just affirms my prior comment. And again, this is not oppositional. is just journeying with you so that I can understand our industry better. And that is, that's your subjective point of view of what greatness is. Again, we can of course go to the tape and see what the market tells us about its reaction to what we have done, but that's after the fact.

Or sure, we can do pre-deployment marketing, pre-activation marketing to get some type of basic focus group or test the waters. But very often we've seen so many ideas on candidates to sports, to movies that test the waters and brands that release new product and they get it all wrong. So I want to nail down.

You use the term, but we can't be good, we've got to be great. But you Dan, have your definition of great. Steve has his definition of great. Dave Wharton has his definition of great. Ben Gunning has his definition of great. Steve LaCroix, who's on our board by the way, has his definition of great. So three people by the way, for our viewers, one is our CMO, one of our senior vice presidents of sales, and Steve who's on our board.

Dan MIgala (33:22.734)
Great. Yes.

Steve (33:29.405)
three people who know Dan well. So with that said, your definition and our definition individually is going to be distinct. And therefore, is there without all of those ingredients of the collaboration, a team willing to collaborate to go a little beyond their comfort zone, the Dan's of the world and the Dave Whartons of the world who are capable of getting excellence out of their client, that entire ecosystem.

that someone can quarterback. And it seems to me that so much of our mediocrity or failure comes from a stacked ecosystem that is not in any way at parity. There is no parity in the ecosystem. That means a lot of people are gonna fail. That means billions of dollars are gonna be wasted and are wasted annually on sponsorship.

Dan MIgala (34:21.186)
Yeah, and I think that's the harder path, if you really pause on that. I worked with, when Steve Cohen became the new owner of the Mets, we were with him from day one on his ownership. And one of the things that I learned from Steve, and he wanted to really transform his operation from a business side. So we were able to really create some, what we called innovation and revenue roadmaps for him.

of kind of really defining the art of possible. And one of the things that Steve said as a standard was, and again, I appreciate the thought of this as subjective, but Steve said, I'm not going to tolerate mediocrity. And he set the standard. That's the reverse of great, right? So it's like, if you can have a leadership style where you know what mediocre is, and to me, that's doing what you've always done off the shelf.

And the baseline of the minimum of what to do. then great is this. And that becomes a process to it. And by the way, there is a creative process to all these things. That's kind of it. And you know where it shows up is in the renewal deck and the recap of where you know the results weren't what they could have been or all of those things.

but I think it's like maybe, maybe to this point, Steve of setting the standard, is maybe something that I would share as a learning for this conversation. both what you're not willing to accept, which is what Steve mediocrity is doing, what you've always done. but also what does great look like to me? Great. I learned this with the Padres and Taylor made one of the great joys of my career. Never thought above the fold color picture on the wall street journal. That's great.

Right? Like earned media for TaylorMade, 300 million in one week. You know, and like guys, this is what we can do. This is what's possible. This is a non-traditional category, all those things, and let's aspire for this every time. And that was...

Steve (36:37.493)
So what about all the non-Taylor maids and all the non-pop tart? always, for some reason, even though I would never forgive me, I don't eat them. I'm a big believer in good health. But as a kid I did. With that said, I keep on going back to that because it's one of the most evocative activations I can think of where it's just fun, entertaining, enjoyable.

the product is being consumed by consumed by people in a tacit endorsement. So you might have a Heisman Trophy, you might have one of the greatest colored ballplayers running back quarterback playing in that game. And all of sudden, they're eating your product complimentary, no fee paid to that athlete. Everybody is talking about it. But in reality, and this is gonna lead me if you will, and again, as we flow,

you anything you want to share at any time. Going back in our conversation, I do want to just point out there are the preponderance of these sponsorships are the non-tailor maids, are the non-pop tarts, are the non-brands that captured your mindset because A, they somehow incorporated physically the brand into the action in a seamless way.

that made it so consumable, much fun, enjoyable and natural. Even though was unnatural to see a golf club at a baseball stadium, it still was natural in some way because it had almost a utility feel in some way. I want to go, I understand greatness. I understand Steve Cohen is an owner and a great, obviously, entrepreneur and successful financier, billionaire, financier. What I'm trying to comprehend is I'm a brand.

and I've got an internal team of brand managers and I'm gonna drop, let's not go to the big, big leagues, let's go to say one and a half million a year on a sponsorship. I'm not gonna be the title sponsor. I'm playing a meaningful role. getting some meaningful benefits.

Steve (38:44.095)
But very often, there's nothing outside of my VIP corporate hospitality exploitation, maximization, uniqueness that I generate, if that. And then, some of the other perfunctory benefits that are pretty perfunctory, pretty straightforward routine.

So you're left with so many brands feeling they got shortchanged. either, they just feel that, or let me give you the second part and I'll conclude here. You got to a point where your definition of greatness was seen. And this is a big thing we do at our AI analytics group. And we build software down to be used. We hand over the keys to the software and their independent solutions in the pre-contract match stage, in the maximization area.

What do I do with my spend, the rights fee I just paid? And then as importantly, and we've gone, transcended it now into what we've gone from measurement to actually measurement plus ultimately this critical, critical, what we think is the ultimate area called multiplier effect. You did this, but you left all this beautiful value on the table that you didn't even know about. And we might 4X, 8X, 10X it for you.

With that said, when we look at the brand and trying to understand what they did well, to this day, almost all brands look reflexively. And so when the agency or they themselves calculate what the return was on objectives or investment, whatever we want to call it, at the end of the day, it's a benchmark they established. So again, you get that massive subjectivity that maybe someone set a KPI

that they want to keep their job and artificially lowered it. I'm not trying to suggest nefarious behavior of brand folk, but the human nature is if I say to a C-suite member, we're going to break in 10 million in sales and we end up with 1.5 million, it was a failure. If I say we're going to generate an additional 1 million in sales and I bring in 1.5 million, I'm a bit of a hero in some way. How do you deal with, again,

Steve (41:02.665)
defining what is not mediocrity and what is greatness.

Dan MIgala (41:07.267)
So I like in terms of like anticipated RO-

like to set goals. And I think what you're talking about is maybe a little sandbagging in there. I like the definition of what's an achievable goal and what's an aspirational goal. And having both of those is the expectation. So that's a real balancing act that, at minimum, we believe collectively we're going to do it. if we could really

go above and beyond, this is what aspirational could be as a good example of that. I think, and I'll maybe weave in my third point with this lesson. I think part of this is like, how do you enhance versus interrupt the game, the property, the fandom? And it's kind of like my...

Steve (41:53.247)
Force.

Dan MIgala (42:08.588)
You go back to my eight year old self or my dad's a big sports fan. Does my dad think this is an ad? And like, I really try to use that as a, how does this make his experience better watching, attending, listening, et cetera, as an example. So to the point of what you said of those, you know, those categories spending a million five, they're part of the clutter.

I think if they are able to understand how they can become part of the value proposition, and almost like my dad can't be a fan of this team without it, and he's making something, that brand is making something that my dad loves happen, and to actually take the time to do it. And it's simple things sometimes. The Denver Broncos here, they have some real simple activations when...

We win, you win, and you get a free cup of coffee at their gas station, and it's oxygen in the partnership, and we're driving to school on a Monday after Bronco's victory. Those gas stations are packed, and you can see it. And somebody thought of that. They've got all the other assets and that, but they are inserting themselves into the equation in a way that enhances versus

Hey, we're gonna pause in this conversation and talk to you about the official gas station of the Broncos, right?

Steve (43:38.546)
But they did it in a way, and I'm with you all the way, totally on the same side of the table in everything you said. And it behooves me to kind of just bifurcate two things here. One is you had the TaylorMade brand identity at the Padres, okay? So then the question is, someone's father was a fan of the Padres before that came up, and now the TaylorMade is there, and it's an oversized golf club that has great visual for the brand.

And it was in the Wall Street Journal, which is phenomenal. I did not know that. It's an incredible accomplishment and a lasting one. And at the end of the day, I'd like you to define, I'm all in on the proof of concept, not a proof of concept, on the total validity that you have given me something. And it's one of the hardest kind of fine lines we walk with.

is am I seamlessly fitting into their fandom by giving, by something that has cost operational expense investment associated with it versus recognizing I've already dropped enormous amount of money for the rights fee. I've spent inactivation in a way to just get my general benefits undertaken already cost me a lot of money.

And for those who don't have point of sale activity, it's wickedly hard at times to bring that real life benefit to the fan. So if you could first define how the TaylorMade Golf Club falls into that category of enhancing the life of the fan. And then secondly, for those who aren't going to give a cup of coffee away and don't have the most immediate product

point of sale activity, it might be a more B2B oriented product or higher cost item on the consumer sale side. If you could just help us understand your mindset of how those are a creative value in the value proposition for the team and for the brand.

Dan MIgala (45:55.438)
Yeah, TaylorMade first, I think based in San Diego, so hometown brand, you're a fan of San Diego, you're a fan of the Padres and you're a fan of the fact that these golf clubs are manufactured in our town, right? So that kind of hometown pride became it. I think when that asset was launched, one of the things that was really interesting was

Instagram was just coming up and we talk about, you know, inside of a stadium, live entertainment, an Instagrammable moment. Where do you take your picture? you know, from there, some of it's the statue. I like this term environmental envy in fandom that like people like to take a picture and right or wrong. I'm here and you're not. And what we learned was the tailor-made foul pole and this

Steve (46:34.847)
Mm. Mm.

Dan MIgala (46:53.582)
world's largest golf club became a place that people took their picture. And that was really fascinating. And I think the crossover of fandom between golf and the Padres and the lifestyle, a lot of out of market fans that would come in as well. If you're a visiting team fan, you want to go see your team in the road, San Diego's not a bad place to visit, right? And that became it. And so it had a sense of...

you know, place to it. And I think that was one of the learnings, you know, that was really part of it. To the point that when we did, you know, like maybe some field passes or, you know, some of the ballpark tours, the tailor-made foul pole was part of the stop so people could take their picture with it. You're not doing that with the Brand X outfield wall sign, you know, in the same way. So I think those are really good learnings too, right? Like of inserting yourself in that part of

Steve (47:43.573)
He

Steve (47:51.318)
If you, before you switch over, I want to probe one thing since you're an expert on that stadium. How many overall brands were represented? I have a pretty good idea for most major league ballparks, but how many brands would you say were visibly represented within a TV visible nature of the broadcast, TV broadcast of the Padres? We'll be your best guest. Okay, of the 30 to 40, so.

Dan MIgala (48:11.566)
I'd probably say 30 to 40, you know, on the field level, yeah.

Steve (48:19.167)
Perhaps if someone took a magnifying glass to watching the broadcast, we could identify, let's just say, 35 brands. How many of those brands stood out for a photo op the way Taylor made it?

Dan MIgala (48:34.019)
None.

Steve (48:35.189)
Okay, so of the 34 residual, how many had another activation at venue that somehow maybe wasn't a photo op, but fall into the greatness capacity that you just defined?

Dan MIgala (48:47.298)
Yeah. Well, and I think what happened with the tailor-made example was, think, like, maybe there was a couple brands that were already under contract and then new ones that were coming in. And an interesting thing, you I think in defining greatness and wanting that as the standard, they all came and just said, how do we do something like that? You know, and we want to go bigger and all of that. So I think also

you sometimes you start to brand your operation as this real creative solution. and I actually asked a couple of those brands and I was new there, right? So I, you know, those weren't my initial partnerships, but I would say to them sometimes, what is something that we said no to you in the past or what is something that another group said no, and can we become that place that, becomes that activation partner maybe in a new way? So, I think those are

interesting parts of the dialogue. And I think when you do something big like that, you get a hand raisers, you get other people that will approach you that secretly they wanna be great, they wanna know what great is. Maybe they know they're mediocre or they inherited a program and wanna do something a little bit bigger.

Steve (50:01.845)
So at the end of the day then, of the 35 sponsors, 34 of them, if you were consulting today and it was the exact same scenario, and it is the same scenario, it's so many ballparks, it's so many stadia and arenas in the country venues, where it is truly one or two brands out of the 30 to 40, or in the MBA partner, official partner category, 50 plus official partners.

who are capable of penetrating that corporate veil, if you will, that sponsorship veil of having something that is great.

And then just appearing to blend in with the clutter. And again, we're talking about right now expressly from a broadcast venues fan engagement standpoint. Obviously some of those 34 brands might've done extraordinarily great at the point of sale at some form of engaging client in the form of VIP corporate hospitality. was so novel and lifelong in its impact. But based on what you've said,

It speaks to me again about how difficult it is for this industry, for a brand, to succeed in a way that's memorable, that there's high recall, and that they didn't delude themselves to think that just because they saw their brand somehow in high profile environment, or somehow, whether that's broadcast streaming, whether it's social, digital, at the end of the day,

It hinges, it seems to me, on so much of our industry changing in the sponsorship mindset. And that those days, and I think we're in transition in some regard, but the idea that I've signed a contract and for so many brands, I'm just executing what I got in contract.

Steve (52:07.165)
And I don't stand out and I have not maximized my sponsorship. And we see this every day of our life here. So without hiring your firm or others whom you would recommend as being qualified in their competence.

What would be your message to a first time sponsor who's coming into the game and want to, again, have the presence, they don't have an infinite pocket of cash? How do we turn this into that again, where everything is possible? What would be a mindset, a paradigm shift that they would go through so that they don't again actually

leave that sponsorship engagement really underutilized.

Dan MIgala (53:01.986)
Yeah, and I actually think sometimes the best activations don't cost anything. As well that I think sometimes, know, and there's a time and a place for that, right? And there's that side. I think earned media is a really underutilized vehicle to be able to tell that story. That could be at the local level, you know, inserting yourself into

Steve (53:06.826)
Mmm.

Dan MIgala (53:30.678)
some of those activations looking at. I'm a big fan of these national day of whatever, right? It's National Girlfriend's Day, it's National Flowers Day or whatever. And I think the local media is craving content like that and inserting your brand into whatever it is. It's National Cheers a Friend Day and we're here at the local pub with this beer who's the official beer of.

our team and the mascot's gonna lead us in a thing and you can join us here today and just even just little things like that, know, kind of take you outside of that 34 branded environment in a unique way that that should be part of your strategy. I also think digital engagement in the off season is an easy thing to do. You've got the rights.

I don't think I don't stop being a fan of what I'm a fan of in the off season. If anything, I miss it. So how you can utilize your activations, your content, you know, around there. If it's a NFL team doing stuff around Mother's Day, Father's Day, you know, in the off season that inserts your brand into the conversation are really powerful things to be able to do. We're celebrating the best Team X.

father presented by us and you're gonna, you know, we're gonna utilize our tickets and stuff like that. That gets, you know, that ability to do it and, but it takes some time and preparation and foresight. And I think those are things that you'd be pleasantly surprised that don't cost anything, but really do break through the clutter and maybe help you engage with a consumer. Frankly, the best thing I've learned about activating in the off season, there's no wins or losses.

Everybody's waiting in the offseason. Everyone's having a great offseason. So, you know, it's not dependent upon that. So it's a wonderful time to control a narrative if you're in that team sport environment, too.

Steve (55:40.822)
Excellent, yeah, it's a very interesting point. They're preoccupied with their other home team favorite in the next sport and season sequence, but you're absolutely right. They're not bummed out about how the team performed. You're not gonna land something like a giant fan, Jets fan. I've gotten so much, because I'm all New York, I've gotten now to, bills are my big boys, so I'm just going New York. But with that said.

Dan MIgala (55:52.664)
No, exactly. Everybody's undefeated. Yes. Exactly.

Steve (56:07.335)
If Dan, and this is gonna be my final conversational query, you are hired by every brand, you name the sport, it's whatever you want. And the sport is, we can be agnostic, you can be specific. And they've got, let's say, because if you look at the big ball sports, you're looking at somewhere between 25 and 35 on average per league, if you will, or a team.

that are getting active, visible recognition at Venue. With that said, they only hired you, each brand. And here's the challenging part of the thought exercise. You don't know you're working for every other brand. It's kind of a Michael Keaton multiplicity effect. And Dan is simulversing it, and he's literally at every other of the 30 brands. And he's guiding every other brand.

Dan MIgala (56:55.939)
Yes.

Steve (57:04.221)
So he's got the insurance and he's got the automotive, he's got the fast movement, he's got water, he's got soft drink, he's got alcoholic beverage, and so on and so forth. You, in your multiplicity effect, are guiding every other brand and they're asking you for guidance on how to activate. To have those, if you will, girlfriend of the month, girlfriend, whatever it is, that time of the year, flowers, know, flowers day in America, pub day.

But you don't know you're at the other 29 brands. In your objective point of view, is there a tipping point where there are simply too many chefs at the table, too many brands at the table, if each one knew how to activate to greatness?

Dan MIgala (57:52.884)
No, and actually I think it would be a beautiful symphony if anything. would say a conductor. And what I would say though is you would want everyone aligned to create the most noise for their brand and the audience that they're targeting. I think what you realize in that example.

Steve (57:56.566)
Great answer!

Steve (58:12.608)
You're saying alignment among the very the 29 other brands yeah, but then we

Dan MIgala (58:16.034)
Yeah, that, well, let me share this is if you look at an outfield wall sign, you've got a financial services, you've got a beer, you've got all of that. And that's a mass play. They're trying to do that. But I think in reality, they're all trying to reach different audiences at different times. So I think that activation strategy would work really well to that symphony conductor.

of who's doing a solo for whom and when, as an example. And I think that would be really exciting to think about where all of those brands stand for something different. They're trying to reach a different audience. They want to tell a different story. And to that point, they want to own a different conversation in a moment in time with those audiences.

Steve (58:46.997)
Mmm.

Steve (59:09.373)
So you believe in clothing that there are 30 different target markets being

Dan MIgala (59:13.922)
I think in a digital environment, could 100 % do that to really customize the engage.

Steve (59:18.133)
But I just want to be clear, of those 30 brands of 35 you had at your venue, are you suggesting that all 35 had distinct, discrete target markets and they were not sharing very much so on a Venn diagram of where they crossed over and sometimes 80-90 % crossover?

Dan MIgala (59:35.24)
Some crossover, obviously. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And that's that to me is the, you know, I think about it this way. I call it get grow, engage, transact. You're going to use those assets to grow your brand awareness. And then I think that next tier is who are you trying to engage with? So they're all a little bit different. And then how am I going to transact?

my message to be able to do it. So I think the grow to your point is all, you know, the mass that they've got to kind of live there. But I think if they had a separate, customized, curated, bespoke, engaged strategy that allows you to have a conversation with, not at, and then what is that measurement, whether you're B2B or B2C, I think you can live, you know, very holistically. By the way, I would also advocate.

that there's a probably deeper opportunity for them to engage with each other. And your partner's partners, if you will, to be able to do it because in the eyes of the fan, they would want the crossover between the auto and the gas or whatever that might be as that kind of an analogy as well.

Steve (01:00:35.999)
Exactly.

Steve (01:00:54.485)
Well stated. Yeah, it's probably one of the most neglected big benefits of sports marketing, what we call the Big 12. It's probably one of the most neglected that I've seen in my involvement in the industry, that brands leave on the table so much access to channels of distribution that are mutually beneficial, so natural and authentic, and it just increases the pie and diminishes the churn. With that, by the way, your final comment...

Dan MIgala (01:01:20.002)
Yeah. it's interesting. If I, just on that note, if I had, if I became a team owner, one of the things that I would create in my partnership sponsorship team is a collaboration person. and their sole job is to broker and help partners to do business with other partners. So easy example is if I had a healthcare sponsor and I've got a soft drink,

partner, I want to help get their soft drinks into the healthcare system. And then I want the healthcare system to become the healthcare provider for the soft drink company is a real simple example. And how many times could you do it? I, could you do a car purchase program for all your sponsors and their employees to drive loyalty there? There's so much money and retention.

and growth to be had there. But that requires you to slow it down and speed it up. And I think that helps with that 35 analogy too.

Steve (01:02:28.541)
If you do do that, just I'm going to suggest one replacement. I'm to come forth with Steve's Blend, which is an organic beet, watermelon, pomegranate, and ginger, a concoction that will get into the healthcare system if it's okay with you. There you go. But by the way, six months, and here it is. With the last six months of your background, for those that don't know, Dan was the head of basically global

Dan MIgala (01:02:43.768)
There you go, done, done.

Steve (01:02:56.725)
technology at Legends when his company was acquired. And that was a very significant acquisition. Dan has exited that and is executive in residence at three different brands. One of them, I believe most recently announced in February of 2025 was TransWestern, in which you're involved. But you have a broad technology and I'm not gonna go down this route today. We'll do it again sometime, but.

If you looked at the last six months of your technological savvy and where you've been following the daily, I mean literally daily changes in technology and deployment and how digital and activation and creative is changing and it has changed literally overnight in the last 24 months.

What would you do differently today in your guidance of any of those 35 brands or 30 brands? We'll just take one brand or what have you, let go back. What have you done rather in the last six months where you've taken technology that you believe is head and shoulders of benefit above anything else you've done in your past that aided your client in a way that 24 months ago you never would even thought.

to bring into the equation.

Dan MIgala (01:04:12.846)
Yeah, so let me, I'll give two answers to that. First, I'm gonna go, we're gonna hop in the DeLorean, go back in time. It's 1999 and I got hired by the Chicago Bears to create their very first website. Bears were the last NFL team to have one and it was my job to code, write and sell sponsorships for what became ChicagoBears.com.

And I was the first person with the word internet in my title at the NFL. So that was like, you know, rogue days, making it up as you go along. And I think one of the things that I really learned from that experience that still holds true today with technology, data, digital, whatever adjective we want to use to describe it, AI, the core principle that I learned from that moment in time is.

you know, to have conversations with fans, not at them. And it changed the dynamic from a one-way relationship to a two. And it has to be very authentic, real, all of those things together. And as over time, MySpace, Facebook, Twitter, all these things came along. That same playbook has kind of served me well throughout that time. And I think like that's really important.

you know, on that as a reminder, I think you alluded to the last six months on a tech side. so, you're working with trans Western also have worked with six street, the private equity group that, owns legends and is investing in a lot of teams and sports assets. And the other one is a really unique company called las parking. actually met them. Laz parking, L A Z.

Steve (01:06:02.517)
What was that, Dan? I'm sorry, I didn't hear that.

Dan MIgala (01:06:07.566)
And I met them actually when I was at the Padres, the founder, and they are the leading parking company for live entertainment. And so I went down to the battery in Atlanta, which is kind of the preeminent mixed use development. And Laz was a part of their early stage traffic management plans, ingress, egress, and for a guy that loves

improving the fan experience and putting more money in owners pockets. I was blown away by what they were doing. And I'll give you a really simple example of something I'm really focused on right now. License plate reader technology as a activation engagement tool. So as you leave the battery and you're a premium customer and you've got your license plate registered, you get out of the building faster. You don't see a red light.

And, you know, it's that level of symphony.

Steve (01:07:10.133)
quite by the way, just interject, that's quite ancient technology, by the

Dan MIgala (01:07:13.996)
Yes, but it's in it's so I think about that in terms of, you know, if you drive a certain car as the official car of Team X and and those kind of things and you look at what keeps a team executive up at night, sometimes it's the first and last experience that a fan has in the parking lot. So it's a real fun sandbox to play in. No, and I

Steve (01:07:24.019)
Very smart.

Steve (01:07:39.765)
not just a VIP benefit.

Dan MIgala (01:07:43.758)
When you think about the way I'm wired of I think about maximizing the premium customer. But I also think about the single mom that's coming to one game and is looking for that. So now if you could use technology to drive her to park maybe in like the Griswold section, get in there earlier and she has a lower cost of entry and I could also sell her a

Steve (01:07:55.509)
Beautiful.

Dan MIgala (01:08:11.8)
hot dog at a value price, which gets everybody into the building faster, everybody wins. So those are things that, like what I like about tech is what is possible going back to that moment of having a conversation with a fan, not at them, that improves everyone's experience. And parking's been a really fun one that pleasantly surprised me of kind of the art of possible. And it's getting more complex with these mixed use developments and

You know, it's more condensed and you've got people that are living and working there on top of getting 40,000 people into a game on a Tuesday night.

Steve (01:08:51.061)
Yeah, it's interesting. In a conversation we had recently with Jim Andrews, formerly of IEG, he also, I like how both of you have something in common and you went back and it really edifies the point about our industry, not necessarily having core industry standards throughout and that there's just so much to remediate from our past history of kind of coasting.

Dan MIgala (01:08:57.88)
Love you.

Steve (01:09:19.365)
as a chairman's choice option or a fun to have and a exciting spend being part of sports. Whereas some of the fundamentals, and this is so fundamental, that everyone feels like a VIP coming out of that parking lot. You don't want to sit in the Bronx at 11 o'clock at night with, you know, 50 people ahead of you trying to exit.

in a very slow exit getting to a traffic light and then getting back on the major deegan, it's a task and a half. And some of the simple elements that we really have overlooked for so many decades, OCR, optical character recognition has been around in the shipping industry for God knows how many decades and can be deployed and that's a smart deployment. Dan, you're a compassionate, empathetic gentleman as well. Thoroughly enjoyed our conversation today.

and very much would enjoy at another time getting heavier into the technology side because that's our bread and butter as well and it's an exciting time to be in this sports business, the business of sport, where virtually every aspect of our industry is being disrupted and which means there's enormous opportunity or as Dan would say, what was your term about the possible? I should have memorized it but

Dan MIgala (01:10:41.454)
The art of possible. Yes.

Steve (01:10:43.251)
I love it, the art of possible and the greatness that you spoke about not accepting mediocrity and what that means in times of opportunity is while there is disruption, there's gonna be a lot of folk who don't get it and don't know how to navigate disruptive waters and need so much more help. So you just gave up an example that is so beautiful but could have been deployed 30, 40 years ago, which is fascinating.

So it leads me to believe we are in an endless, at least for the rest of our lives, in an endless world of opportunity to do better and to help brands get more, most importantly, get more out of their sponsorships by optimizing choice, understanding how to maximize, and then really recognizing how to improve for the future. So it becomes an endeavor that's not just looking for a single data point at one discrete time.

Again, Dan Magalla, congratulations on all of your recent and past successes, which include, of course, your seminal role in the Sports Marketing Department, having started off as a sports business student, master's student at Northwestern, and then coming into a very major leadership role there. We'll do it again here at the Transaction Report. Great having you today.

Dan MIgala (01:11:36.515)
I love it.

Dan MIgala (01:11:57.646)
Great to be with you, thank you.