Steve Feuerstein (00:01.408)
So what a pleasure it is to have here on the Transaction Report, Blake Barrett. He's the founder of IFA, the Institute for Athletes. He is a real noted veteran of the sports agency world, in the NFL in particular. But he's been a part of the culture of the business of sports for over the last 20 years. And Blake, what a pleasure it is to have you today on the Transaction Report.

Blake (00:28.162)
I appreciate it, Steve. Thank you for having me. Really appreciate it.

Steve Feuerstein (00:30.548)
So a lot of action, a lot of action always in the world of sports agency. And it's evolving as we speak, sometimes for the benefit of the agent, and sometimes we see the structures of commissions that agents were making get legislated by leagues to fit into a certain bracket. And at the end of the day, with NIL and the new edition of college athletes and their name image and likeness being up for play.

has obviously seen an infusion of folk who have no credentials whatsoever, posing and propositioning athletes right and left in the college world, simply because of a relationship, a friendship, which is important. But first, let's get right into what I would call the school of hard knocks of caveat emptor for athletes, which is really your specialty among many, which is.

We have a flood, tens of thousands of prospective athletes who are being presented and given that opportunity to put their shingle behind someone else's shingle. And that is an unexperienced agent, unlike yourself, who is representing the world to them. How do we navigate this world of NIL when there are so many cautionary tales to be heeded?

Blake (01:34.157)
Mm -hmm.

Blake (01:46.062)
Mm -hmm.

Blake (01:57.27)
That's a good question. think, you know, even pre NIL, I think a lot of the same problems existed. You know, I think people rely on the people they know and the people they trust, whether they're trusting them because they're qualified or they trust them because they were the closest to them or they trust them because that's who they grew up with. But to me, it all just comes back down to education and transparency and communication and

And you have a lot of people that other people trust that may not have the experience or the credentials for them to fulfill the obligation that they're signing up for. So to me, it all comes down to education, communication, transparency, credibility, which I think that holds true, you know, in the NFL space, not just the NIL space. I think that holds true in a lot of different areas. Now you just have more.

opportunities and there's less legislation and there's no union and there's not a set staple of laws and restrictions. So I think it's going to take a year, two years, three years, maybe a little more for us to have the actual system that we're working under. Right now there's no system. It changes every week. And I think when there's opportunities and there's financial means, you get bad apples. And I don't know how a 16 year old or 17 year old

or 19 year old is supposed to know the difference if they're not exposed to people that actually know what they're doing. So I don't have a great answer for you.

Steve Feuerstein (03:31.392)
And it was a very solid answer, but your principle has been, at least it was when I read an interview with you, this is dated going back about 13 years, and your position was we at IFA, we do no website, we have no website, we at the IFA have no social media, this is all referral -based business. Before I go further, is that still the case 13 years later?

Blake (03:56.782)
We have a social media handle now. We do have a website now, but it's still 100 % referrals. And we don't, I would say our, you know, I think with the changing of the times, we had to have those things, but, and I understand we have to market ourselves as part of, you know, the first thing any parent does or kid does is look you up, whether it's articles, whether it's social media handles, whether it's our website. So we have to have something basic, but I've never put a ton of,

time or stock into what our website says. We're in a relationship business. We have nothing to hide. We have credibility. We have, I'm an open book. I'm gonna tell the truth, it's good news, bad news, and different news. And in our business, I'm not trying to go sell someone that I don't know at all. The opportunity for us to work together requires communication on both ends. If we're ever gonna partner, any good partnership has to have communication and trust and transparency.

and be able to have difficult conversations, that's gonna come out through our dialogue, not what someone reads in a material or a pamphlet or website or on our social work. What we use it for is to show authentic, organic relationships and business so that it gives validity to the things that we're actually doing without us having to regurgitate at all.

Steve Feuerstein (05:17.77)
You know, it's interesting if you put this in context, your guiding principles at IFA, Institute for Athletes, has been humility, maturity, philanthropy, leadership, and personal responsibility for the athletes.

And if we had to make a parallel, because people always love it, and I remember years ago in the business when I used to represent athletes, people would always wonder back in the 90s, so do you kind of do what Jerry Maguire does? So if there was a Jerry Maguire, Bob Sugar parallel based on your driving credo, you clearly are the Jerry Maguire of the reputation side of the business. You're about transparency, trust, honesty.

trying to do the right thing by your athlete. Do it by referrals, which probably has a lot to do with the athlete's family and the athlete themselves. The athletes themselves literally generating business for you. I heard you on an interview in March talk about you've also taken on in the NIL space about 30 new athletes. So with your team, the time was about 12 months ago. You were taking on a whole new group of athletes. First of all, I want to dissect that.

Blake (06:23.448)
Mm -hmm.

Steve Feuerstein (06:31.424)
You took them on, did you acquire a business? How did you take on these 30 new athletes?

Blake (06:35.914)
No, it was all organic. It's all referrals. You know, the first year or two of the NIL space, we kind of stayed on the sidelines and let the legislation and compliance kind of, you know, figure it out because it was constantly changing. and I think, again, this comes back to the education component. You know, when we would talk to a student athlete and they hear NIL, the first thing everyone thinks about is money. That's the first thing that comes to their head. They think because NIL is now legal,

everyone's, everyone has a value and these brands are wanting to pay them just because they play football or basketball or baseball on Saturdays or Thursdays or Fridays. And so I know that's not reality. You know, the reality is these collectives, which ultimately the dollars are going to come from the athletic departments. They don't call it pay for play, but the reality is they're paying these student athletes to play football at Georgia and play football at Ohio State and play basketball at North Carolina. They can

put marketing partnership deliverables alongside of it. But the reality is, know, Gatorade isn't interested in the right guard at Georgia just because Georgia's paying them a half a million dollars a year. The reality is they're getting paid to play their sport, which in my mind, they should be. We beat around the bush because the NCAA doesn't want to allow pay for play, but that's exactly what's going on. And the idea that these guys or women are still amateurs, you know, these are not non -revenue sports. These revenue sports are generating

hundreds of millions and billions of dollars to fund everybody else. So that's the reality. And so my point with that was there's a big educational component to tell these young men, in our case, it's young men, it's not young women, but it would hold the same if we were working in women's sports, is that just because you're getting paid X to go play football at this school doesn't mean that these brands want to work with you. You may not have a social following. They may not know who you are. They may not know what you stand for.

They may not know what you're interested in philanthropically. They may not even know what you look like because you guys wear helmets. So the idea behind us taking you on as a client and going and beating the pavement for an extra two grand or five grand or eight grand or 12 grand isn't a great use of everyone's time. It's not to say we're not gonna try to market you, but in order for you to be marketable to a brand, you gotta be a brand. have to...

Blake (09:01.422)
You gotta stand for something. You gotta differentiate yourself from the masses. Because just playing football on Saturdays or Sundays is not enough. So our approach and the service offering that we're offering these young men, college players, high school players, is the most amount of money you're gonna make in the short term is what you're getting from the school. Just like in the NFL in most cases, Patrick Mahomes is making a lot more on the field than he is off the field. know, Tyree Kills making $30 million a year on the field.

I'm sure he's not making $30 million a year off the field. It's the same way at the collegiate level for the masses. It could be a little different for Caleb Williams. It could be a little different maybe for a Marvin Harrison Jr. But we want to negotiate your contract to make sure you're in the right situation. You're getting your proper value. They're not inundating you with too many deliverables. Help you build your brand so that we can, we have the ability to market you to these different brands, not the other way around.

And that's not easy for every 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 year old to understand because they're getting inundated with so much nonsense about how marketable they are and how much money somebody else can bring.

Steve Feuerstein (10:12.448)
So if we could, let's go through instead of sports agency for the dumb, you know, for dummies, think that sports agents lifestyle for dummies, let's call it sports agency for the motivated and or everything you wanted to know about being a sports agent, but you were afraid to ask. So let's probe a little. Can you name one athlete you recently did a deal for just anything, any athlete that comes to mind.

Blake (10:21.942)
huh.

Blake (10:27.483)
huh.

Blake (10:40.738)
Are you talking NIL? Are you talking NFL?

Steve Feuerstein (10:43.338)
whatever you would like.

Blake (10:45.678)
We just did a paid partnership with Jonathan Allen and Pizza Bully, a company that's in the DC Virgin area.

Steve Feuerstein (10:54.046)
Okay, and the company was again.

Blake (10:55.918)
Pizza Boli, B -O -L -I.

Steve Feuerstein (10:58.858)
pizza bully. Take us first and foremost, how did you meet Josh? Or is it Jonathan? Okay, let me go back a step. First and foremost, how did you meet Jonathan Allen?

Blake (11:04.91)
John Jonathan.

Blake (11:11.276)
I met John his junior year of college. I believe it was his junior year of college, so I'm dating myself a little bit, but take me back eight years, well before NIL. We had had some other Alabama players, but I knew someone that referred me to his father and met his father, met his family. We hit it off. They wanted me to come out to the house. I was out. think I went to his, I think I went to their home to meet them for the first time on Christmas Eve.

his junior year and spent four hours with them and he decided to come back for his senior season and we just developed a rapport. know, John's an old soul. He's mature beyond his years. He's not inundated by the glitz and the glamour, comes from a military background. He's extremely disciplined. He's just, he is the consummate pro. And we just hit it off. Like, my family will go stay with them. We were at their wedding.

They'll come to Minneapolis and stay with us. I'm big on really enjoying the time I spend with our clients, partially because we put so much time and effort and energy in, and I value my time and I value other people's time. So for me, I've just had the personality that if I'm not into something, you're getting very little effort out of me. And if I believe in something, I'm going to the edge of the earth for you.

And so for me, not that I have to be best friends with all of my clientele, but I need to really love them. And I really have to enjoy being with them. And I have to believe in what we're selling and I have to believe in trust in them, which is like we talked about earlier, a partnership. So that's initially how I met him and we just hit it off.

Steve Feuerstein (12:59.008)
So they are entertaining discussions with other agents. It's not a monopoly that any agent has. And so you're going to hear, very often, we'll hear from the agent that it was a family member, the parental unit, obviously, the mother, the father, both, that initially there was a contact made through a referral. That referral of yours, was that in the industry? Was that an industry referral? It's just a mutual friend.

Blake (13:23.662)
No, nothing to do with the industry. Yeah.

Steve Feuerstein (13:27.936)
So a mutual friend made the introduction. You reached out and spoke to the father first and had a good rapport. Can you help again in the most practical, real way? How does Blake Barrett's distinguish himself from all the other agents that have, like you, really blue chip clients, have been in the business 20 years?

Blake (13:32.45)
Mm -hmm.

Steve Feuerstein (13:57.576)
and know the business from top to bottom. And by the way, they also have a strong moral compass. They're transparent. They are the Jerry, if you will, of the Maguire scene. They are the Jerry Maguire of that movie. They really live it. They're transparent, they're real, and they have a smart head. How did you, I know so many of our viewers would like to understand, what is that tipping point? What is that fractional differential?

Blake (14:03.114)
Mm -hmm.

Blake (14:20.728)
Mm -hmm.

Steve Feuerstein (14:25.738)
that that family looked at you and said, Blake, you're our guy.

Blake (14:31.222)
You know, you'd have to ask them, but what I think is I did every single thing I said I was going to do every time I was with them, the hundreds of hours of phone calls, the hundreds of hours in person. I was there educating them about something in the business and I did it. Well before I signed with them, this was over the

Steve Feuerstein (14:45.94)
But this is before you sign the deal or after? Wait, you put in hundreds of hours of personal time actually courting this relationship with Jonathan Allen from Alabama prior to signing a representation deal?

Blake (14:53.742)
Hundreds of hours. Yeah. Yes.

Yeah.

Blake (15:03.502)
100%, yeah. Because back in the day, there was no NIL. So you can't even sign a player until the eligibility is up. So this was, you know, and I don't want to make it sound like it was all work because I really enjoyed it. Like I enjoy the education component. I enjoy the empowerment component. And I'm a good judge of character, right? So it's like, if I'm talking to a player that takes four days to call me back,

Steve Feuerstein (15:05.513)
Over what type of time frame?

Blake (15:32.556)
or doesn't respond to a text message, or I can tell doesn't care about the information I'm going over with them. Those are all tells, right? And I know like the difference between when Jonathan and now his wife, who was his girlfriend at the time, Hannah, are calling me and asking questions and wanna understand the NFL business and understand more stuff about financial literacy and understand about how the draft works.

and understand what a disability insurance policy means. Every single time we meet and communicate, especially eight years ago, there was an educational component to it. And I talked to John and Hannah the same way I talked to you, the same way I talked to the owner of the Minnesota Vikings, the same way I talked to my wife. At some point, other good judges of character can tell the difference between someone that's trying to sell them and someone that's trying to educate them and create a genuine relationship. So...

You know, just like I feel like I'm a good judge of character, the clients that we typically work with and families we work with, I think are also good judges of character. And I don't necessarily think there's hundreds of us that have credibility and experience and show up well and do what they say they're going to do. I think that number is whittled down to a handful. If I had a son that was going to the NFL tomorrow, there was only so many agents that I would inherently trust them with and not trust them to do an NFL contract.

but trust them to be there for them. Trust them to be a guiding source for them. Trust them to do a bunch of things for them that they're going to need in their life that they're not going to make money on. I have a different definition of what an agent does than I think the majority of agents do. So my definition is I'm trying to put a plan in place to make sure that you're successful and happy and comfortable over the course of time. That has nothing to do specifically with an NFL contract, a 40 yard dash, how many sacks you get.

Steve Feuerstein (17:13.278)
And that definition is.

Blake (17:30.178)
What are we doing so that you're well -rounded enough that you can ride off into the sunset, whatever that is, whether that's by choice or because a team doesn't want you anymore, that you're happy and comfortable to live a successful life. And that means what does success mean to you? How do you define success? And so that's a lot of conversation. Like I think I play the role of psychologist, life manager, mentor, advisor, marriage counselor.

a lot of different things, then I understand I get paid on the contract I negotiate, but the football component is really just the mechanism that brings me and a lot of my clients together. Like I'm a fan of football, I'm a fan of business, I'm big on family, I'm big on philanthropy. This business just allows me to bring a lot of the things that I'm passionate about and I think I'm good at and bring them to the forefront. But when Jonathan Allen doesn't play football in four years,

I'm still gonna be hanging out and helping him 30 years from now. That's what I create. That's how I define success for the relationship.

Steve Feuerstein (18:34.12)
So it's interesting. So with your contracts, let's fast forward these hundreds of hours. I'm presuming you didn't live with him at that time. So you were probably evolving this relationship, frankly, probably well over at least a year plus, if not a few years. So now we get to the point of signing. For those again of the uninitiated, what obligations do you have for that athlete that you've got skin in the game?

Blake (18:45.55)
Mm -hmm.

Blake (18:49.218)
Ear plus. Yup.

Steve Feuerstein (19:03.112)
so that he's holding you accountable as an agent to represent him.

Blake (19:09.016)
Yeah, for him, I'd have to go back and look at what our plan was for him, but we had laid out an entire marketing plan, an entire philanthropic plan. Most of it was a pre -draft plan, right? So from January to April, these are the goals. This is what we want to accomplish. This is what we want to do. This is your training plan. This is your D line coach. We cover all of those costs. That's our investment in Jonathan. And then we hold ourselves accountable to that entire plan, along with feedback from him.

And that doesn't stop and start just for the draft process. know, once he's drafted, that chapter closes and we're devising a new plan. We're sitting down with he and his wife in our conference room about, okay, you know, from a philanthropic standpoint, as you get into the DC, Maryland, Virginia marketplace, are there philanthropic initiatives or endeavors that are close to your heart that you want us to explore? Jonathan grew up in a foster home. So having some of...

you know, for a couple of years, not his whole life. And he's a technology wizard, takes computers apart, puts them back together, loves gaming. And we brainstorm the concept of what about building technology labs in a foster care facility in the DC, Virginia area. And we built a program around that. The program still exists, you know? So it's building, it's constantly evolving and, you know, Adam Thielen and Jonathan Allen,

are in very different places of their life than our five person rookie class, right? They're figuring out how do I get acclimated to a new city? Do I rent or do I buy? How do I pick up the playbook? How do I ensure I'm on the roster week one? We don't have the ability from January to now to go deep dive into what the philanthropic initiatives are gonna be for those players in their cities. We don't even know if they're gonna be in those cities yet. So every client is a different.

It's a different life journey or life journey mapping process that we constantly evolve and go through. They're all the different places of their life. And we have to adjust based on the priorities at that time, if that makes sense.

Steve Feuerstein (21:18.656)
Absolutely, it makes total sense. When you look at the athlete today compared to let's go back eight to 10 years ago, even 15 years ago, we have now a remarkable announcement today that Joe Rogan -esque, we saw the Kelsey brothers announce a hundred million dollar deal, hundred million dollar deal for podcasting, right? So we've seen the athlete transition from being almost

Back in the days of Mark McCormick, as we were talking about off camera, the days of the early days, the formative days of our industry, when we look at certain big groups at the time, priding themselves and offering financial guidance for hundreds if not thousands of athletes, and at least touting that as their secret sauce at the time, it's fascinating to see an athlete evolve through this

Blake (22:08.663)
Mm -hmm.

Steve Feuerstein (22:14.72)
from Web 2 .0 to Web 3 .0 and going from activist investor. So a few years back, about six years ago, we saw Steph Curry and Andrea Godella go out and really spearhead, be at the vanguard of representing an athlete who said, I am gonna make decisions for myself about where I put my cash. Kevin Durant and Rich Kleimman being a great duo and how they go about that.

Blake (22:34.926)
-huh. -huh.

Steve Feuerstein (22:41.032)
as a team with agent and athlete, another good example. But now we're seeing the media being very much reflexive that the athlete recognized they are a media institution. Perhaps LeBron paved the way a bit with that in the uninterrupted brand that he introduced. But at the end of the day, we see all these opportunities for athletes. And very often,

Blake (22:43.534)
Mm

Blake (23:07.15)
Hmm.

Steve Feuerstein (23:08.894)
We saw neglected endorsement deals. We saw neglected the opportunity to make that off field, off court, off track, off course money for the athlete. And I guess if we evolve to this moment in time where we're seeing a hundred million allocated for a multi -year deal for the Kelsey brothers, what do you see coming up for athletes that's very important for you in your repertoire in a very transparent, meaningful representation of an athlete?

Blake (23:18.399)
Mm -hmm.

Steve Feuerstein (23:36.468)
What do you see as an important ingredient of your messaging through IFA, your organization, that didn't exist, let's just say, two to five years back, that is essential for you to become a master of?

Blake (23:49.184)
Yeah, listen, I don't think, my perspective hasn't changed over the last three or four years. I've always kind of preached that everything is at your fingertips and there's a time and a place for it, but

Athletes have the, especially celebrities and the professional sports ranks, you have a platform. You can accomplish whatever you want with your platform. And whether it's the Michael Strahan's or the Steph Curry's like, yes, some of these people were really good at their sport, but you know what else they were? They were humble and they were philanthropic and they were community driven. And they didn't think they didn't act like they knew everything. They shook the right hands. took the time to.

to get in power, all of those things are at your disposal. But just like, you know, I always equate it to the guys, like this is all a new language to you. When I was 18, I didn't know any of this. When I was 21, I didn't know any of this. There's a time and a place and you have to put the time in to learn. Like if I stepped on the field for you tomorrow, I feel like I'm intelligent. I don't know your playbook. I don't know the language. I'm not gonna know where I'm going. I'm not gonna know what the hot reads are. I'm not gonna know what the blitz pickups are. I'm not gonna know what the checks are. I'm not gonna know what the signals are.

give me time and give me someone that's gonna teach me and eventually I'll understand it. And I equate that to the world that you're talking about. You gotta understand what marketing and branding is. You gotta understand what PR and public relations is. You gotta understand what your social media profile and channels can be used for. You gotta shake the right hands. You have to know when to say I don't know. And it's a lot. For an 18, 19, 20, 21 year old kid of which in today's age,

These young men and women are getting coddled at a really young age and they're kind of coddled through college. They're not really prepared to handle all these things day one, nor should they be like, but they see it. So they think because I'm playing good football or because I'm playing good basketball, I'm now deserving X, Y, or Z. And there's no actual correlation between the two that requires honest, transparent conversations. And not everyone can have an honest conversation because you got all the

Blake (26:05.102)
the noise in there saying, hey, come sign with me. We're gonna do all these things. We're gonna put you on billboards. We're gonna give you the free Mercedes. You're gonna be on the bronze ads. You're gonna be in Nike billboards. We're gonna put you in movies, because we represent Steven Spielberg. None of it actually ends up happening. And no one's actually talking about putting the time in to educate and empower for the things that may happen eight or 10 or 12 or 14 years from

Steve Feuerstein (26:29.33)
Excellent. So just before we continue on to that realm, which is really interesting for me when learning about your expertise, let's just go one step further. It's very hard to be an athlete and successful financially off the field without creating that, we'll call it that kind of individual fiefdom of a media identity, which is a social media mix, a multimodal mix.

It's understanding all the fundamentals, which is really for many of us a lifetime experience to understand everything you just broke down, Blake. When you think about, got to understand finite. I've got to understand how to really behave as a, as we would say in my world, a mensch. You got to be a good guy and reliable and a go -to person to get the job done and dependable and deliver. So you did say something that I think is so important to, to, to, delve into further a lot of young folk.

Blake (27:19.352)
Mm

Steve Feuerstein (27:28.48)
who are signing deals, think when I looked at it eight months ago, 19 states in the United States are now making it permissible for high school athletes to have deals. I think when one of my colleagues looked at it the other day, where over 30 states in the United States have now made it legal for high school students to be paid for name, image, and likeness, for endorsement deals. And at of the day, obviously they're getting into money way earlier. It's absolutely driven by money. We know that mothers, single mothers have left states

to move into states that permit their sons or daughters to make money and be paid to play, because that's vital because they don't know they're to play ball long term. So get the money now while they can.

Steve Feuerstein (28:10.842)
As we go forth, the money has always been the driving fundamental. And when you come to securing those deals and the next stage of your relationship, let's just stick with Jonathan Allen. And you're now negotiating the first contract. How much, and I think I know the answer, and it's kind of a semi -rhetorical question, how much does Blake Barrett sit down with the athlete and get aligned? Because you did say something fascinating.

Blake (28:33.74)
Mm

Steve Feuerstein (28:41.002)
that so many agents over price their athletes, particularly safeties, if I remember correctly was your comment, and that there's a market where people have just overpriced themselves and they're not getting the deals. So when you're representing an athlete, are you in alignment with the athlete and is the athlete total buy -in and understanding why you went to market to secure a deal with the team at the price point you went in?

Blake (28:54.606)
Mm -hmm.

Steve Feuerstein (29:09.95)
and you're totally in unison in doing that? Or are they just yielding to you as the expert to set the price, being one with it, but it's not really understanding why that price will set the way it was?

Blake (29:22.478)
100 % of the time we're in alignment. And these are conversations that take place years in advance. Just like we have a plan for the pre -draft combine training, we have a plan of what happens contractually, when's the right time to go to the team. We're constantly updating the marketplace. We're constantly playing worst case scenario and protections. It's a constant evolution because I'm never gonna play Russian roulette.

with my client's career and livelihood. These are always gonna be their decisions. And the only way they can give me their feedback on a decision is if they're empowered about the situation. Otherwise, there's no point in me asking them something that they may know nothing about. Like when we did Jonathan's extension, I could have gone both ways. I completely understood him signing a contract the day before training camp. And it was a...

It was a contentious negotiation. And I don't want to get into the particulars of it, but it was contentious. It got contentious at the end. We were 100 % right in how we evaluated it. I didn't think necessarily they were acting in good faith at certain points in the negotiation, but he was about to sign a contract that was going to set him up and his families and generations up with generational wealth regardless. And when we talk about what's the goal is, is the goal, is John doing this for his own pride?

or his own ego, or is he doing this to set his family up with generational wealth, not necessarily beat the next defensive tackle in salary? Like that's not why we're doing all this. We're doing this to set his family up for generations. What I think happens a lot of time in our business is the player is not kept in the loop and agents are playing Russian roulette with guys careers and they're mandating dollars that don't exist. And because they have a plethora of 200 clients and the client inherently trusts them,

They're not going anywhere. But I would be very surprised if players were kept in the loop on a contract negotiations to the extent that I keep my clients involved because I see what's happening out there. I see the risk of injury over what I would consider, I don't want to make light of two or three or $5 million a year, but if you get $100 million guaranteed versus $103 million guaranteed and you're out on the field risking an Achilles tear every practice, I can't fundamentally understand

Blake (31:45.026)
what we're fighting for at that point. Now, I don't want to get involved in everyone else's negotiations because everyone's got different goals, but I know how a lot of these other agents operate. I talked to all the general managers on the record and off the record. I just fundamentally don't believe in that. take their livelihood and their career extremely seriously, and I'm not going to say, well, you're better than this player. So we're going to just, we're going to hold out. We're going to fight for more unless it warrants it. And there's certain times where it warrants it, but

In John's situation and a lot of the situations I see out there, I can't understand why certain deals aren't done. It doesn't make any sense to me.

Steve Feuerstein (32:21.354)
And so when you're doing those deals, what you're saying is if they don't get done, you've been in a situation where a deal you were seeking, bad faith didn't get done. How does that athlete traditionally respond to you when you're coming back with the news that there's no deal?

Blake (32:36.664)
Sometimes it's bad faith. Sometimes it's good faith, but a differing of opinion. You know, I could give the example of two free agent linebackers we had this year in free agency. Blake Cashman, who signed with the Minnesota Vikings on a big three -year deal, and Frankie Louvue, who left the Carolina Panthers to sign in Washington on a very lucrative three -year deal. Houston wanted Blake Cashman back, and we were talking, and it was good faith, and we were making real -time decisions based on our preparation.

of why we were turning those deals down, where we thought his market could go, the risk reward of what happens if you get hurt the last eight weeks, what does your market look like? And Blake continued to ascend and he stayed healthy and he even surpassed what we thought his high point was in free agency. It wasn't in bad faith. It was just, they had a view of his role in Houston and what they were willing to compensate him for that role. And we had a vision of

what he could become if he hits the open market and can now negotiate with 31 other teams. We also understand how some of the other linebackers in the marketplace are gonna price themselves out of situations and Blake and Frankie can sneak up and say, okay, we're coming to this with eyes wide open, very realistic. That whole plan has to be understood and accepted by the client. And if the client says, hey, if they see

Steve Feuerstein (33:59.456)
And the client is there every step of the way. Each time you're getting a response, it's not yielding to you and saying, you don't have any client that says to you, I trust you implicitly, get the best deal for me, leave me out of the negotiation.

Blake (34:16.014)
They do, but especially when guys come up on their first real big payday, I don't feel like I can do that. I can't get an offer from a team and just not tell the player. That's just not in my DNA. Like even if the player says to me, Blake, I trust you, handle it, which 99 % of them do, I push back on that. I want them to make the decision. Listen, if I feel adamantly about something, I'm gonna tell them, hey, under no circumstance would I sign this deal.

And if you want to sign this deal, don't tell anyone that because we're just negotiating against ourselves at that point. If I know you want to be in Minnesota no matter what and you would sign this current deal, I know that now. Don't tell anyone that. And let me know. Let me work the deal so I can go negotiate the best deal for you. Because I'm assuming you want six million dollars a year instead of four. But if I know you really want to be there, then that becomes the number one priority of all these things. All these priorities we're putting together.

for negotiation. And you know, like now, now Jonathan has kind of flipped. said, Blake, I should have just had you handle the whole thing last time. My emotions got involved. It was my first big contract. I don't even want to know this time. You just handle it. I'm still going to keep him in the loop, but his life isn't going to change from a how he's living standpoint on his next deal. He already has life altering money. He has generational wealth.

He can do whatever he wants the rest of his life. This is gonna be the cherry on the top. This is gonna be some opportunity to maybe take a percentage of it and do something in his own space or private equity space or something that entertains a little more risk. But, and it's not to say it's not important, there's still gonna be tens of millions of dollars if not more, there's, whether he gets hurt or not, knock on what he doesn't.

isn't gonna change the outcome of him being successful 35 years from now. That was different four years ago. He was in different situation.

Steve Feuerstein (36:21.268)
By the way, years ago, and you'll help me understand what that benchmark, I just forget at this moment in time, but the NFL has a cap on what amount of money an agent can make from a contract with the team. Is it three plus percent today?

Blake (36:37.346)
Yes.

It's 3 % and that's an NFLPA rule. So we're governed, as an agent, I'm governed by the union. That is the union's rule. So we're maxed at 3%.

Steve Feuerstein (36:50.207)
So the idea obviously was in the golden years as the NFL was growing, or I should say in the evolutionary years where the money was flooding in, obviously you had sharks in the game who were able to tell an athlete, I'm going to take 20 % of your contract, 20, whatever the free market would determine it to be. So there's a cap of 3 % on endorsement deals in today's world in the NFLPA. Are there any guidelines regarding?

Blake (37:17.87)
That's on the NFL contract.

Steve Feuerstein (37:21.482)
Correct, so on the endorsement pride, when you're doing a contract for an athlete, as an example, is there any legislation, if you will, guiding...

Blake (37:31.982)
We're not governed by anyone, but the standard on cash deals in the industry is like 20%. 15 or 20 % is the standard. Yeah. Yeah.

Steve Feuerstein (37:39.968)
So it is still at that level, 15 to 20%. Okay, so the motivation for you, usually when you have an athlete who's making the money that you mentioned earlier, obviously with the Jonathan, with the Blake, you're looking at significant monies and your 3 % materializes into millions and millions dollars. You presently have over $100 million of contracts outstanding. please, that over the core, right now you have obviously 3 %

Blake (38:00.472)
Sorry, you broke up a little bit, Steve. What'd say? You broke up there.

Steve Feuerstein (38:07.84)
on over $100 million of active contracts. You've got annual contracts over 25, approximately 25 million a year right now as I understand. Is that a relatively accurate representation of the deals you have?

Blake (38:20.27)
think we're typically in the 65, 70 to $100 million in annual contracts. Yeah, that's kind of where we see.

Steve Feuerstein (38:29.37)
annual. And so what is the breadth of that over the lifespan of, just the aggregate, what are we looking at?

Blake (38:38.958)
That's a good question.

Steve Feuerstein (38:39.328)
4 to 500 million?

Blake (38:43.608)
Probably, yeah. Over, yeah, probably more than that, yeah. Mm

Steve Feuerstein (38:44.68)
Yeah, in the ballpark. Okay, so over half a billion bucks you have for deals you've negotiated.

Do you have any incentive in today's world to do endorsement deals?

Blake (38:57.902)
Yeah, I do. Like we have a really good marketing department, like our head of athlete marketing ran CA marketing for 15 years. He helped start the players Inc, which is the marketing arm of the union. I do, because I think, you know, the marketing deals that I believe in, in building your brand and part of building your brand comes with marketing partnerships and influencer opportunities and public relations and social.

and philanthropic because I fundamentally believe it's not really about the money for a lot of these guys at that point. It's how do you attach yourselves to other brands where there's an affinity or an authenticity, which in my opinion creates additional opportunities. Like, you know, that's why Kevin Durant and LeBron James and Steph Curry are now saying, well, the 50 grand or a hundred grand or $2 million a brand is going to pay me.

I wanna take some of my money and be investing in the company so I'm at an equity level. Not everybody can be at an equity level. Those are the biggest stars on the planet at the most recognizable sport. Tom Brady can do that now. Joe Montana may be able to do that now. Patrick Mahomes can probably do that now. It's even harder in football because you're less recognizable and the dollars may not equate to what they're making in other sports, but I want these guys to do these

Steve Feuerstein (40:20.7)
Right, Blake, bear with me one moment. Ryan, can you hear me? I lost Blake for a moment.

Steve Feuerstein (40:30.26)
Huh. Hey, Ry, do you hear me?

Blake (40:35.982)
I

Steve Feuerstein (40:37.15)
Blake, if you can hear me, just give me one moment. I don't hear you.

Blake (40:41.08)
Steve's was freezing a little bit on my

Steve Feuerstein (40:47.027)
No.

Steve Feuerstein (41:00.798)
Am I back? Is Blake back?

Eri, are you there?

Steve Feuerstein (41:09.844)
Wait, do you hear me?

Steve Feuerstein (41:16.338)
You guys hear me?

Blake, I see you.

No.

Steve Feuerstein (41:54.113)
That was bizarre. I saw Blake, he was moving. was on my end. So Blake, I have to apologize. I usually have outstanding internet connectivity. I happen to be in central Israel right now. Yeah, I'm about an hour north of Jerusalem and Tel Aviv. And I came over after October 7th to volunteer. And since my company, my main business is a high tech...

Blake (41:59.254)
You

Blake (42:15.457)
Wow.

Steve Feuerstein (42:23.647)
We built soft. did I lose you again? Nope. You hear I'm here. So we built software for, for sponsors, corporate sponsors. So Steve is one of our advisors, Steve LaCroix. So, and it was so nice that he made it over there. So I've been here mostly since October. So I came with the first flight out and I was delivering products to army bases, north and south from Gaza all the way to the border of Lebanon.

Blake (42:36.194)
That's awesome. you been over there the whole time?

Blake (42:47.758)
That's awesome.

Steve Feuerstein (42:50.881)
And now since my, my car, you know, we have about 25 people in the company. They're all based mostly in the States. So I can do my work from about two to midnight. And, and this is just a part and extension. I've been in media for 35 years. And, so it's a privilege for me to be here. And so I've never had an issue with my connectivity, but I'll take responsibility because you get a lot of action here and I'm about an hour from the border of Lebanon. So at the end of the day, yeah, no, it's beautiful. If you saw my view, you would think I'm in the French Riviera, by the way.

Blake (43:09.166)
good.

Blake (43:15.438)
That's crazy.

Steve Feuerstein (43:21.249)
So Ryan, are we still recording? I see live record. Let me just text him. Okay. But I want to be respectful of your time. If we have about another 15 or 20, are we okay with that? have a major area that I'm going to love probing into with your expertise. So we'll pick up where we were and we were talking. Give me a moment. Can you refresh me? Do you remember you were right in the middle of an important point. Give me a second.

Blake (43:32.078)
You're good. Yeah, you're good.

Blake (43:40.044)
Mm

Steve Feuerstein (43:50.689)
Because this will...

Blake (43:50.872)
We were talking about, had asked me, is the marketing worth our time? Yeah. my stance was it's worth our time if it's something that's important to the player. And if the player understands what I deem to be the bigger picture, which is the more, if you're a good person and you're doing the right thing, your platform is going to open up so many doors for you.

Steve Feuerstein (43:57.471)
Yes, the endorsement deals. Absolutely.

Blake (44:20.686)
Especially if you take advantage of shaking the right hands and being in the right rooms while you're playing, while you're still being talked about and you're still a name. Every CEO in this country can get ahold of every other CEO, just like you can get ahold of anybody in your locker room. Take advantage of your platform while you're playing because 10 years removed, no one cares anymore. So my point is build your brand now, be in the community now, shake the right hands now, dedicate some time.

to doing those things because, you know, unfortunately, like, people may not care what Terrell Owens is doing anymore. Like, you're kind of, you had your opportunity, you did things the right way, the wrong way, like no one feels sorry for you. Like, utilize your platform for better now because you're gonna be able to take that with you the rest of your life. If you don't take advantage of your platform, it's tougher. It's out of sight, of mind.

Steve Feuerstein (45:13.281)
And also pound for pound, there are lot of retired athletes who pound for pound, dollar for dollar from a sponsorship standpoint. And that's really where we float is really looking at how do we generate value for the corporate sponsors that are one of the two major lifelines for the money of the business of sport, the fan and the corporate sponsor. Obviously you could argue the broadcaster, but the broadcaster gets their cash from the advertiser and the sponsor. So at the end of the day, there are two channels of that money that fuel this industry.

And if they have that identity, what I want to go back to, you mentioned you have one of the outstanding voices in marketing, having been, I believe you mentioned at CAA as well as at the NFLPA. And when you look at the referral side of your business in securing athletes and then going out and with the teams and the overtures your way for the athlete and your overture perhaps at times to particular teams, give us an idea of how you ultimately sculpt

and respect the brand, the corporate brand, the sponsor, in finding that right endorsement sponsor relationship. What do you think about an IFA's identity, your agency's identity, in saying, you know what? That brand's not the right fit for you. You're gonna harm your brand identity. We're not a right fit for them, vice versa. How do you find that win -win?

Blake (46:25.122)
Mm -hmm.

Blake (46:38.68)
Well, the same process that we go through for evaluating our talent and our prospects, we go through a very similar process and a brand identity conversation. And that requires communication with the client, but also listening to the brands. what are your morals? What do you stand for? What's authentic about you? you know, then we try to match up the right brands. In the instances we're trying to create,

longstanding relationships. There are transactional deals. Like I don't need, I don't need Jonathan Allen to love Leaf Trading Cards. If the trading card is going to pay him a half a million dollars a year to sign 10 ,000 cards, you can take the money and do the transaction or not. And there has to be a happy balance in my opinion, between the transactional deals to put some extra dollars in your pocket and the things you're building for longterm. Like,

Adam Thielen is a very healthy eater. He watches what goes into his body. Like him doing something with Red Bull doesn't make any sense. But for somebody else that maybe drinks a lot of coffee or will have an energy drink once in a while, or maybe isn't a family man, maybe isn't a skateboarding, maybe it makes more sense. So we go through a pretty deep discovery phase with our clients, do a bunch of outreach, and then we have to do some sales on the other end too to ensure that the brand sees the

the vision for what we're looking for with the athlete, which also isn't that easy in today's day and age because there's nano influencers, there's micro influencers. These brands can get very, very specific of exactly the audience they want to hit, which is good and bad.

Steve Feuerstein (48:26.177)
And also, also NIL just to ride on top of that, what did NIL do? I said this years ago, what it was gonna do. You're gonna take a lot of really outstanding athletes who are at the mid tier level of the game, who are being supported by significant brands. And those brands are gonna say, I'm gonna be a venture capitalist for the day. I'm gonna take that money I was giving Bob or Diane for this amount of change. I'm gonna go after 30, 40 NIL athletes. And if I can hit payday with a few of them and grow with them,

I'm gonna build my brand perhaps in a way where for that mid -tier, I wanna take some of that money and drain it out and filter it into the college and perhaps now the high school level.

Blake (49:07.406)
That's exactly what's happening. You're right. That's exactly.

Steve Feuerstein (49:09.823)
So as we move forward, you said something that to me is perhaps the heart and soul of what I think so many who are passionate about the business of sport are astounded. And you've been quoted many times over. There are articles after articles on this for decades. Perhaps Mike Tyson would be the dictionary definition of folk who didn't have a Blake Barrett in their life, right? And if I remember correctly,

Blake (49:27.054)
Mm -hmm.

Steve Feuerstein (49:38.867)
And it's astounding. And I remember I was studying this about Mike. Mike blew in the dollars at the time when he was in his prime for just about a half a billion bucks, half a billion dollars. Mike Tyson blew and just just ripped through a half a billion dollars. He was in debt at the end of it. He was literally from his endorsement deals and fights. He had signed one hundred and twenty million dollar deal with Showtime, burned through that cash. He had purchased one hundred

vehicles literally you may recall that that story we was driving through one of the tunnels in New York City and he literally left his Rolls Royce in the tunnel because he was so fed up that it stalled and he just left it there he had an annual $250 ,000 long care deal right he was $325 ,000 for his pet upkeep he had pet pigeons and tigers he had three thousand racing pigeons

13 chefs, we can look at Dan Marino and the money he bled through in putting all of his money into one stock, right? The company that that Tupac hologram. And Dan bled 13 million through it. mean, athlete after athlete. I'll just give you one anecdotal. I was doing an event when I lived 13 years in Asia and one of the events was an all -star, a Legends game in the NBA. And we brought in Kiki Van De Wey and Michael Cooper and Spud Webb and Darryl Dawkins. And one of the athletes I was offered,

was Kareem Abdul -Jabbar, this was 1999. Blake, guess, and I've lead it down the path where I know you're gonna give me a number that's probably accurate, but guess how much I was offered to bring Kareem to Asia for one week at that time to be a star in the event.

And think of his real market value. I mean, this is Kareem 25 years ago.

Blake (51:30.264)
for a full week? I don't...

Steve Feuerstein (51:31.499)
full week playing in a televised event, doing endless amounts of VIP corporate hospitality, endless amounts.

Blake (51:38.858)
I like whatever I say is going to be a lot higher than what it ended up being, but I would have thought that'd be at least a couple hundred grand, if not more. Yeah.

Steve Feuerstein (51:42.193)
But if I didn't lead you and I just told you market value.

Awesome. I would have thought so too. 5 ,000 US. His finances were in such a desperate state that I was offered to bring Kareem to Asia for one week for $5 ,000. All the other athletes I mentioned to you were $5 ,000. So at the end of the day, what we understand is, as you've been quoted, is that within three to five years, first of all, most athletes in the NFL, and it's lead to lead, and I have a follow -up question on this, but I want to just get to this first one.

Blake (51:53.048)
Come on.

Steve Feuerstein (52:18.145)
We know that the average lifespan of an NFL player, the number I used to remember was 3 .5 years, obviously depends on the position. When you look at the NBA collectively in the big ball sports, when we look at baseball, basketball, and football, you've got an average lifespan of between four and five years. And that's your bread and butter since you were a kid. I mean, you were basically out of the womb, being trained and groomed for this day, and then to extend those four or five years and make the money you're supposed to make.

whereas folks who are doctors, lawyers, whatever your trade is, electrician, plumber, you've got that until as long as you wanna stay in the field, in the game. So you mentioned earlier, you're looking at a 12 -year threshold. You wanna set your athletes up for life, not to get burned, because so many athletes, what's the number of athletes who either declare bankruptcy in the NFL? 80%. So this number, I think, floors people. And...

Blake (53:08.192)
Percent

Blake (53:14.242)
Mm -hmm.

Steve Feuerstein (53:16.523)
However, we have leagues that are supposed to train athletes in financial training. We have agents who are supposed to be offering proper financial guidance or sometimes make the introductions to financial advisors. Can you give us the skinny, if you will, on why this is an epidemic in certain sports and why, frankly, it has increased in a knock on down?

Blake (53:41.774)
It's definitely a pain point. It's definitely an epidemic. The bottom line is...

They're not educated on financial literacy. The NFL says they care, they don't care. It's just a machine. The NCAA says they care, they don't care. Half the agents don't care. Half the financial advisors say they care and you got a bunch of jock sniffers. You got a bunch of fanboys that are in the business. The reality is it's not nearly as much money as everybody thinks. It's all about saving and budgeting.

every rookie in the NFL is severely underpaid. don't care if you're Caleb Williams or you're a third round pick. Caleb Williams, and I'm not going to make light of $10 million a year, the top quarterbacks in the NFL are making $60 million per year. And that's the number one pick in the draft. You to the end of the first round, they're making $3 million a year. You get to the of the second round, they're making under $2 million a year. Well, after taxes, it's a million bucks, it's a million four. You don't have enough money to live the rest of your life. And that's a...

That's a second round pick. Our third round pick and fourth round picks are going to make a million five this year, maybe two million bucks this year. Again, million two after taxes, and they're not going to make a million five next year. They're going to make their minimum salary, 900 grand. So they haven't gotten an apartment yet. They don't have kids yet. They haven't put their kids through college yet. They haven't been married yet. They haven't done anything yet. And life is really expensive. You know, we're experienced. I know how expensive life is.

But when we talk about the education component and the empowerment component, I'm putting Excel docs together and spread. I'm not a financial advisor, but I can tell you what with 100 % certainty, if you listen to me, I know enough that you're going to have money when you're done playing, but you got to listen to me. And every guy I tell, I bet you, you get to the point in the next two years where you're spending $40 ,000 a month. And they look at me like I'm crazy. It's not going to happen. It's not going to happen. It's not sure enough. It happens.

Blake (55:46.956)
because life is expensive and they have no experience in this space. And so the key fundamentals are budget, save, and have accountability to when you're gonna go past your budget. And it's really difficult to understand in the NFL space because third, fourth round picks are going to fight for their roster lines. They're just like, they all think the NFL has turned the draft into a spectacle. It's a made for TV drama.

Everyone thinks all this money is rolling in. It's just not reality. And the NFL doesn't give a shit. They just don't care. It doesn't matter if Aaron Rodgers is playing or he's not playing. Jordan Love is right behind him. And Aaron Rodgers is right behind Brett Favre. And Adrian Peterson is the greatest thing one day. He's out of league the next day. They don't care. It's a carousel of players. And the amount of discipline that you need on the front end at the salaries we're talking about.

to withstand a lifetime, let alone 15 or 20 years, you have to budget and save and be disciplined on the front end or you're playing with fire. And that's, then you get married or you have a divorce or you have a bad investment or you have four kids or, you know, that's normal life stuff. But to your point earlier, most people in society make more money in their 30s than their 20s and their 40s than their 30s and their 50s than their 40s. It is the polar opposite.

as a professional athlete, especially in football. You have a small window to be disciplined enough to set yourself up forever. And that's really, really difficult. It's a difficult exercise. And everyone thinks, I just got drafted. I'm just at the beginning of my career. Well, stats will tell you you're just as close to the end of your career as you are at the beginning. So what are you doing now to ensure that you have some security and flexibility later? And that is really difficult. Like I don't make...

I don't make any more or less money whether Jonathan Allen is dead broke or he's got $30 million in the bank. I think a lot of agents get very short -sighted. They don't really give a shit. Like I can't sleep at night. If we negotiate a $100 million deal and he's got nothing to show for it 10 years from now, what do we actually just accomplish? My philosophy and what I care about is significantly different than just negotiating a contract. I can do the contracts in my sleep. Like I could represent 500 players if all I had to do was negotiate their contract.

Blake (58:10.766)
And that's a really important piece, but that doesn't mean you're gonna have financial independence in 15 years. So creating habits on the front end is critical. It's so critical. And there's a lot of hearts to hearts and there's a lot of difficult conversations. And I gotta get them with the right people that can hold them accountable, be relatable. Because it doesn't matter how good of a financial advisor you are if you can't even communicate properly with your client. Doesn't matter.

Steve Feuerstein (58:35.807)
And that's all done through IFA.

Blake (58:38.882)
Well, we don't do it internally, but we have enough people that if a player wants a referral, we have them. I know a thousand really good financial advisors, but if the investment component of this is year four, year six, year eight, how do we get to year four? You gotta save money, you gotta budget, you gotta be comfortable in your own skin, you can't keep up with the Joneses, and a lot of guys give off this masculinity like they're so comfortable, but they're not.

Steve Feuerstein (59:07.734)
Have any of your athletes ever had to declare bankruptcy?

Blake (59:11.714)
No, knock on wood, not yet, no.

Steve Feuerstein (59:15.691)
Let's put that into the positive, not yet.

Blake (59:18.252)
Not yet, I mean, guys listen to me though, but here's the other thing.

Steve Feuerstein (59:21.889)
But at your rate of 20 years in the game, so it's an unlikely occurrence.

Blake (59:27.798)
It's a very unlikely occurrence, also to get to that stage, they would have had to not listen to me so many times over and we would have been butting heads that I would have left the relationship because it's...

Steve Feuerstein (59:38.785)
By the way, how many athletes, I'm just gonna reject one point here, Blake. How many athletes in the total portfolio of IFA? Is it 50 now?

Blake (59:45.358)
Over the course of the years or right now? Right now we probably have 25 or 30 active NFL players and another 30 college players and then I'm still really close with all of our retired guys. So you could throw another hundred players into that boat.

Steve Feuerstein (59:47.44)
Right now, active clients.

Steve Feuerstein (59:58.515)
And every athlete, you personally have a relationship.

Blake (01:00:02.434)
Every single one of them. Every single one of them. And I talk to you consistently.

Steve Feuerstein (01:00:04.865)
Do you ever sleep?

Blake (01:00:09.25)
Not as much as I need to. That's why I'm drinking coffee still.

Steve Feuerstein (01:00:10.283)
Can I ask you to declare to our viewers what's in your hand? And that's your sixth cup since we started, wasn't it? So Blake, as we kind of fuse this to a first conversation conclusion.

Blake (01:00:15.502)
Coffee.

I wish. There will be more though.

Steve Feuerstein (01:00:31.617)
So to wrap this into a package, if you will.

You choose with whom you're gonna work, your clients choose with whom they're gonna work. You've expanded into college space, but at the end of the day, it's just a different level of play. And it's still an athlete, it's still an athlete who's gonna make a lot of money if they continue their performance. It's an athlete that if they build their brand, and that is the clarion call to today's athlete.

Blake (01:00:58.36)
Mm

Steve Feuerstein (01:01:04.801)
that I actually have an opportunity to build a brand. In NFL, it's one of the hardest areas if you're not a QB or wide receiver or a safety to build that brand, right? It's hard. It's hard to build a brand when you're wearing a helmet the whole time. I remember when one of the head of the NFLPA said to me, hey, listen, I don't think Odell should make the money that Kevin Durant makes because Kevin's on TV a lot more and everyone sees him 24 seven. I mean, he's visible every time he's on the court. When you're on.

Blake (01:01:05.36)
Mm

Blake (01:01:13.176)
Mm -hmm.

Steve Feuerstein (01:01:32.833)
If you're a lie, I use the reference Blake, that if you're, I'm from New York City, so if you're in New York, you go down to Wall Street, one of the most sports crazed environments on the planet, and you put a fleet of cars with guys who are on the front, on the offensive and defensive line of the New York Giants, and just make sure the only thing you can see is their face, nothing else. And just drive them throughout the streets of New York City. I would say 98 to 99 out of 100 won't recognize them. Yep.

Blake (01:02:00.27)
100%. Yeah.

Steve Feuerstein (01:02:01.633)
So it's a tough business to build brands in a spot where you've got helmet on all the time. And you want long -term longevity. We were speaking recently to Kyle Rudolph, who's done a masterful job about building a brand after playing ball. And so if you will, as we come to this next era of your existence, you're a young man. Let me put that in context. 20 years into the game,

Blake (01:02:11.694)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Blake (01:02:16.782)
100%.

Steve Feuerstein (01:02:28.779)
You got a lot of longevity ahead of you. It's your call how much more you want. What would you say is, is there a change with all the technological revolutionary changes we're seeing and in many cases weekly in our world of AI, that's the space we run building software and AI for corporate brand sponsors to get more efficient maximization, optimization of what they do, measurement. How do I even know what I got? So at end of the day,

Blake (01:02:45.614)
Thank you.

Blake (01:02:52.96)
huh.

Steve Feuerstein (01:02:57.269)
Do you see, whether it's through technology or otherwise, if you had to forecast and look into that magic, if you had to pull out the magic wand, what would you think might be over the course of two, four, six, eight years the biggest changing operational level of day to day for a sports agent?

Blake (01:03:08.835)
Mm -hmm.

Blake (01:03:21.726)
Yeah, I think that there's a lot of, I think there's a lot of things that we could be doing from a technological standpoint that we probably manually do today. Like it's always going to be a service business because they got to have the trust. But I think with technology and AI, the ability to showcase who a player is, how to connect them with the right brands or the one -off vendors. I think there's.

I think there's pitching capabilities and matching capabilities that will make things more efficient. And I think that's in all walks of a player's life. We talked earlier about my definition of what an agent does is very different than somebody else's, which is not to belabor the NFLPA point about the maximum fee. Well, I think the maximum fee has also hurt representation because

You know, they have no idea the difference between Blake Barrett, CAA, IFA, Drew Rosenhouse. Like, how are you deciding, you know, I'm a believer in capitalism and free market value. Sure, I understand protecting your union and your players, but how do you know whether my job is worth 3%, 1 % or 10 %? The market will dictate that. Like Walmart's going to charge what they want for product because that's what it dictates. I would charge more than 3 % if I could because I understand.

what we're investing into the player, what we're doing and the amount of hours and all the things that have nothing to do with an NFL contract, but I'm getting judged by an NFL contract. So my definition of an agency is making things more efficient, making things more accessible, having access to the information. And I don't think that service component is ever going to change. But one of the best things that my clients get to tap into is my network. Jonathan Allen.

Michael Strahan is a good buddy of mine. Jonathan Allen, Michael Strahan was his favorite player, connecting them for dinner in New York so they can get to know each other and Michael can mentor him. How I can connect dots easier, quicker, more efficiently without Blake Barrett's having to text someone or connect someone is how we can technologically advance and make things more efficient, I think.

Steve Feuerstein (01:05:38.753)
Well done, well done. I'll throw one for your consideration. It's a fun one. I know it's improbable. I know you're gonna think it's terribly impersonal, but I think you're gonna have it. And I think your athletes are gonna have it. I think within 36 to 60 months, you're gonna see adoption of the Blake Barrett's AI chatbot. And I think your chatbot is gonna be speaking to actually Jonathan. And your two chatbots are gonna be making decisions.

and for your threshold or portfolio, that volume you have, I think you're gonna find that you're gonna be able to so replicate yourself because the chat bubble so understand you and has studied everything you've done, that you're gonna be able to have very intelligent conversations through your virtual identity that looks exactly like you, and that's deliverable today. I think it's gonna take time to get over the impersonal nature of what seems to be a reduction in personal connection. I don't espouse this per se.

but I think it's gonna become the norm. It's gonna be fascinating to see adoption of this. And this is one simple example. I do think you're gonna see some revolutions on how that service business changes, becomes more efficient without compromising the integrity of who you are because you had the Michael Keaton multiplicity effect.

Blake (01:06:38.508)
I agree, I -

Blake (01:06:55.694)
Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Like I could see that being very plausible because 90 % of the stuff, maybe less than that, but like lot of the stuff that we're talking about that doesn't require extremely detailed contract negotiation specifics is stuff that AI could chat back and forth pretty quickly. Like getting John and Hannah new chef in the Virginia area, that's stuff I don't need to manually do. That's easy.

Steve Feuerstein (01:07:18.625)
Absolutely. And just tell him to call Steve Feuerstein and he'll be honored to assist. But by the way, I'm to edit in just one question I was remiss not to ask you earlier because it's something that was bothering me and I did a lot. I'm going to just pick up. You know, I did a lot of research, Blake, in an area that I spent a lot of time in. Worked a lot in golf, tennis, ATP, WTA, owned a lot of national opens in Asia, a lot of golf, a lot of tennis, a lot of other sports.

When I looked at the big ball sports in the United States and looked at the bankruptcy rate you referenced, and how many athletes declare bankruptcy? Because of either malfeasance of a representative, misrepresenting the realities of where their money was placed and losing it on behalf of the athlete, or just the Mike Tyson -esque, I gotta go back to my community, and I was raised in such a school of hard knocks. I...

experienced the street in a way that was so viscerally tough that to show off what I've got is for me the greatest glory. When I looked at tennis and golf and tried to understand what percent of athletes in both pro golf, men's and women's, and tennis, men's and women's have declared bankruptcy, I couldn't buy a vowel. There was no representation of any statistic in that realm. What do you attribute that to?

Blake (01:08:19.554)
Mm

Blake (01:08:39.822)
Mm -hmm.

Blake (01:08:43.758)
Well, I attribute that to a lot. More educated families, two -parent households, it's their expensive sports to get into in the first place. You can't just stumble into golf courses and tennis courts and hockey rinks. So, I'm not pointing out the statistics, but logically, you gotta have someone that has some resources to even have the opportunity to get into those things. And then it's so hard to accumulate wealth.

once you get there, only the top 50 players in the world are making real money or top 100 players in the world. In tennis, I played college tennis, you're not making real money if you're the 150th best tennis player in the world. So to file bankruptcy would kind of imply that you made something substantial in order to be able to file bankruptcy. there's a lot of different reasons to me, but the barrier to entry and where those individuals are coming from, from a

Familial standpoint and a resource standpoint same in hockey you probably find a similar statistic in hockey Because it's expensive to even get going and it's expensive to place you have to have some Avenue and resource whether that means the financial means or the Educational and trust and financial literacy educational component means to get that head start in football and basketball. It's it's very different. That would be my

Best guess as to why.

Steve Feuerstein (01:10:13.013)
I think it's good insight. Very fair. Also the longevity of the career for those top players can go all the way through the champions tour in golf and playing into their 60s and 70s and continue making much more money they made through one championship victory than what they did maybe in their glory years of the 70s and 80s and 90s. So good stuff. Blake, what an honor it was to have you on the transaction report. You're a good man. Yeah, really enjoyed it.

Blake (01:10:31.907)
Yeah.

Blake (01:10:37.122)
No, thank you. When are you back from Israel? You don't know yet.

Steve Feuerstein (01:10:41.267)
So I'm going to be back most likely in the fall, which is coming up. So I'll be back. Love to hook up if we get into the same. And where you're based in Minneapolis, Actually, our chief marketing officer. And also, date.

Blake (01:10:50.83)
based in Minneapolis. But I'll get out to New York at some point. And I'd to pick your brain anyway, because we're actually, I'm always in conversations with other smaller acquisitions, whether we're going to raise capital and you have some background in the space. Love to pick your brain offline. Because speaking from technological advances, like, I've kind of got the agency as big as I can get it. Now I'm thinking about the next 10 years and

Steve Feuerstein (01:11:09.057)
100 percent.

Blake (01:11:18.808)
how to really go scale it and what areas I wanna be in and how.

Steve Feuerstein (01:11:21.601)
You know, I was going to take us into scalability of your business, but I thought it might be too. It's funny you say that I was actually going to take us into, cause I, I saw you based on what I learned this year of your, your growth into NIL. Cause it seemed like it was a 2024, advent. Right. Right. So I'm here for you. Let's do that. Well, we'll, know, Steve, I'll, share with you, Steve, that how much I enjoy this. will absolutely speak. In fact, we are, we just raised, Q4, 2024, 2023.

Blake (01:11:37.368)
Yeah, it was.

Steve Feuerstein (01:11:51.199)
We have another five million we're in the midst of raising and we have VC relationships that we have not yet received money from, but because we have just built our first few solutions. You know what we'll we'll hook up a time.