Steve (00:21.87)
I rarely have topical guests, but there's no question today that the head of global partnerships for the PGA Tour of America is clearly one with the upcoming Ryder Cup at Bethpage 2025, about 90 days away. Having Luke Reisman on the program is a pure pleasure and Luke, welcome to the transaction report.

Luke (00:51.648)
So happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

Steve (00:54.574)
By the way, and when we look at the beautiful world of golf, and we're gonna get deep into under the hood of the Ryder Cup, what I first wanna do, and in just more of a surgical tactical level, is I think when you look at golf historically, there are a lot of acronyms that are used in the industry, that a lot of folks, even those who work in the industry.

And I've been one of those guys in golf since 1990. I started off my career in golf and tennis, WTAETP, and Asian golf, bringing over the top athletes in the world to play in world ranking national opens. But I think a lot of people, Luke, can't figure it out. So what I'd like to do is let's just, if we could, the biggies. You got PGA Tour of America. You've got the PGA Tour.

All caps. And then you've got the USGA, United States Golf Association. And then I'll throw in there just for the sake of discussion, the LPGA. And I know you thought I was gonna say Live Golf, the Live Tour. So we'll bring that one in as well. The one with multiple, it's actually a triple entendre. So we've got five golf tours, four male-oriented, primarily. If you will.

Can you give us just this high level distinctive, what is the fundamental difference among those different entities?

Luke (02:31.147)
Yeah, we could spend three hours on this. much time do you have? That's the key question. Good, good, good, good. No, I'll try and keep it short and sweet. To start with, this is a fundamental challenge in the game, right? There are multiple governing bodies, which is different than a lot of other sports. I think, transparently, if someone is building the ecosystem of golf from scratch, this is not the way they would...

Steve (02:36.226)
So actually, I have three hours, and I welcome you.

Luke (03:00.203)
create it. It is just, you know, it's sort of happened this way over time. I can, I'll do this quickly. PGA Tour, if you're watching week to week, it is the players tour events like players championship, the memorial, kind of the week to week pulsing of the golf season. The USGA responsible for the rules of golf.

Steve (03:00.75)
You

Luke (03:24.743)
a number of top amateur competitions alongside the us open the us women's open. who else? The, LPGA, obviously the PGA tours answer on the women's golf side. and, and the premiere of women's players playing week after week after week. And then we get to us, the PGA of America and we have a unique swim lane on our side. We are the,

We are the governing body that runs a number of the biggest events in golf, the rider cup, PGA championship, the KPMG women's PGA championship. Uh, so we like to say we have, you know, some of the biggest events on all the tours and perhaps even more importantly, we're the organization of 31,000 PGA member professionals. So if you go, um, to basically any golf facility throughout the country and take a lesson or go into the pro shop,

Steve (04:06.616)
Mm-hmm.

Luke (04:20.052)
The people that you're engaging with are PGA of America member professionals who we believe are the gateway for amateurs to play the game. So on our side, you know, we look at it as we have kind of the cream of the crop in professional golf, as well as that grassroots army, grassroots ambassador crew to really elevate and grow the game on a day-to-day basis.

Steve (04:40.494)
Well stated. You left Liv Tor out.

Luke (04:42.774)
Sorry, Liv. So Liv is a new player in the game, obviously. They are trying to take a different approach to the way professional golf is played. There are 54-hole events instead of 72. There are teams associated instead of just individuals. And, you know, it's not a secret that several years ago and continuing to now,

Some of the best players on the PGA Tour have moved over to Live in the PGA Tour and the process of working through what the future of the game looks like on a week to week basis at the professional level. But right now there is a, it's not again, not a secret, a misalignment between what the PGA Tour is doing and what Live is trying to do disruptively in the game.

Steve (05:33.172)
And just to give another 30 seconds to that, about a year plus ago there was an announcement with the former PGA commissioner that they were taking in a good billion plus from the Saudi investment entity. Where were we on that, by the way, just to cover that and move along?

Luke (05:50.472)
Yeah, it's still, there's been, again, it's not, those are different organizations than who we are. So we're not as close to it, but, you know, there's been fits and starts and there has been rumblings that there has been an agreement coming that would, that would really finalize what the future would look like for those two organizations. It is not yet settled. And it continues to be a work in progress as far as we know.

Steve (06:14.818)
You know, it's interesting when you look at the way you own tournaments and it's such a really it's a defining aspect that each one of these tours has their own flagship events. When you look at USGA and the PGA Tour of America as an example, obviously an ongoing tour like the PGA Tour with weekly events is another issue. But the fact that you have a major PGA championship.

Could you help us understand a little bit of the genesis of how, for example, the USGA organizes the US Open, men's and women's, on the PGA tour and the senior tour, champions tour. And then again, how we had this trifurcation, if you will, among the PGA tour, the PGA Tour of America and the United States Golf Association. Each owning a game.

Luke (07:09.002)
Yeah. Yeah. I'm trying to think of the best place to go with this one. So the, you know, the USGA with their signature events being the US open and the US women's open, the, the signature difference between how those events are operated and run and, and, and what we do on our side, which is the PGA championship and the KPMG women's PGA championship is that amateurs are eligible for the US open and the US women's open. And there is a very significant qualifying process.

that allows amateurs and professionals who haven't otherwise qualified to become eligible for those events. you know, the following of US Open qualifying has become a pretty significant, interesting point within the game. For the PGA of America, we are a professionals organization, right? And the PGA Championship and the KPMG Women's PGA Championship have a really strong field of professionals.

that is supplemented by 20 PGA of America member professionals on the men's side and a smaller number on the women's side who have qualified through professional only tournaments. So it's actually, you know, if you follow the story of Michael Block or some others, um, players who, uh, day to day are teaching golf at their local facilities and become these Cinderella stories who qualify for these major events. Uh, we, we then root for them under the core bridge.

PGA Team Banner, that's one of our sponsors. And it definitely separates us from the rest of the group.

Steve (08:41.454)
So when you, you know, I never in my entire career until this conversation, did I stop and think about the fact that actually the PGA tour does not have a major. It's part and participates and part and parcel with obviously most of the golfers participating in the major, majors who are part of their tour. But I was thinking of the Open Championship, the British Open. Now again, is that a co-

Technically it might be today a co-event in some capacity between US PGA Tour and European Tour, but it's basically a Brit, a European-operated Brit, proud Brit identity, the British Open. You look at, obviously the Masters is the Masters, it's its own entity in its own right. You guys have the PGA Championship and the USGA. It's a very interesting check and balance with Europe.

Luke (09:36.14)
It is a fascinating ecosystem. There is no question. And I go back to the point I made before, that if someone was building this from scratch, this is not the way that it would have turned out. Like there is, it is, it is not intentional.

Steve (09:39.917)
Yeah.

Steve (09:44.526)
You're an honest broker. I like you so much already. This was not as an economics major that you were at Tufts. This is not exactly the most efficient system.

Luke (09:58.834)
No, but it, but it's interesting, right? What it, what it allows for is for each of these events and each of these organizations to kind of bring their own flair to teach you. And each of the events has a different identity, right? You know, the masters is very connected to the spring and I guess the national, the U S open is known for being one of the more difficult tests in the game. We think that the PGA championship, aside from those 20 PGA professionals that I was talking about before,

Steve (10:18.211)
Yes.

Luke (10:27.916)
we think we have some of the best champions around because we set up the golf course so fairly and really like encourage players to step up to win. So it is nice that, know, and some, again, it's complicated, but in some ways it's also really nice that each of these events have their own, have their own flair. And it's not, in a of ways, not dissimilar from tennis, right? You know, when you, when you watch, when you watch Wimbledon and then you move to the French open and you move to the U S open.

There's different governing bodies for those. And again, you're not going to confuse the clay at the French Open with the grass at Wimbledon. It feels like very different things. And I think there's something cool about

Steve (11:07.846)
if we could talk a little about as a sponsor. I'm a brand, I'm a company, I have products, I'm could be B2B, B2C. If you gave us a 30 second and this is applicable to all all tours, what is it that is distinct about being a sponsor of golf? Unlike being a sponsor

of an ATP, WTA, NASCAR, Formula One, any other sports event under the sun, if you had to just nail down that true, discrete, distinctive identity, what is it from a sponsor's perspective?

Luke (11:49.364)
Yeah, there's a couple of things. I mean, of course, when we're selling, sponsorships or finding new partners, like we're trying to find the right connection with whoever that partner is. So it's going to differ based on who we're talking to. But the things that tend to carry through and be somewhat consistent is that golf, is obviously a participation sport, unlike some of those other ones, right? Tennis maybe is the closest. but you know, when we have partners who are interested at, at the corporate level or even their stakeholders from a client perspective, like,

those are people who are playing the game, right? So there is a, there's a deeper connection to the game in some ways than, you know, when you, if you're selling an NFL sponsorship, there's not going to be that many people, you know, playing football until they were, until they were 30. That's just not that normal. You know, which is one of the reasons why one of our signature assets in our, in our deals is the ability for people to actually play the golf courses of our championships the day after the championship. So you're, you you're able to bridge that gap between

Spectating at the event or at home and then actually participating I think that's one of the reasons why why there's a lot of interest in golf The other reason is that there's really really high-end hospitality And that fits with the demographic that we think is most interested in spending from a sponsorship perspective We are able to do things On the golf course that are really unique through on-site restaurants really private hosting opportunities at amazingly beautiful places to begin with

Right. The golf courses that we go to are all really, really special. You know, this year, the PGA championship was at Coil Hollow, the Ryder Cups at Bethpage Black, two iconic courses within the game. So it creates a really, really special hospitality experience for folks. I guess the last part of it, the last point I'll make is that, you know, golf has had this perception of, of being a little stale, maybe a little conservative, right? And I think we have tried to flip that on its head from our perspective.

to bring in tech forward partners, innovative partners. And I think a lot of those partners see the opportunity in golf, right? That there's an ability to change the game, the way that people spectate, the way that people participate through a partnership. And that opportunity leads a lot of people to consider being partners of ours.

Steve (14:03.47)
Two things. So you said we're looking for the right connection. So in selling sponsorship, first and foremost, having had many companies where our lifeline was about making sure we didn't go into the red because we underwrote the tournaments very often.

Finding the right connection was called getting the right amount of money in the bank. So help us understand for you. And I'm not here to anyway suggest there's a mercenary approach. But at the end of the day, finding the right connection meant for us finding the right industry interest, if you will, from the 70 industries of sports sponsorship that could make use of it. But at the end of the day,

Very often, there are not a lot of folk hand-holding sponsors, know, assuring them through every activation to get the most and max out what they've just paid for. Very often they're left with their tertiary agency or internal teams. So finding the right connection, please define that for us.

Luke (15:14.956)
Yeah, I think for us, I mean, you hit the nail on the head. There's, there's a continuum, right? On one side, it's taking every penny that you can sell from the sponsorship side. On the other side, it's doing things that support our mission, right? Like those are, those, those are kind of the two sides of the coin for lack of better phrase. We, I'm very proud of what we've done over the last 10, 15 years of

finding our partners who are interested in growing the game of golf and changing the way that people spectate and participate in a really meaningful way. And that is a key criteria in the deals that we're looking for. I'll give examples. Corbridge Financial, I mentioned before, one of the reasons that we're working with Corbridge from a sponsorship perspective is because they are the title sponsor of the PGA team of professionals.

who compete in our PGA championship and KPMG Women's PGA Championship. And it's not a ton of money, but they actually contribute money to the pros who qualify for those events to help with their expenses during that week, right? In a way that really does change the experience for those folks. And then it doesn't just end there. They've secured separate deals with a number of those players. They really are getting behind that group that is the core of our association. That's one example.

Another example is T-Mobile. the point I made before about innovation and tech coming to the forefront of our events, T-Mobile has leaned in to make sure that we are as connected as we could possibly be on site from a 5G perspective, which enables a bunch of other technologies to work. It enables our app to work for people on site. So if they're not following a player hole by hole, can...

see the scoreboard, can see where, sorry, the leaderboard, they can see where lines are most significant for concessions and for merchandise in a way that people weren't able to experience at golf events before. So I think back to your original question, yes, of course, the financials of a deal are really important. We are always looking for purpose-driven partners that can add something meaningful to our events and our ecosystem.

Steve (17:29.976)
So take us to Polo, for example. I remember I was dealing with the head of global sponsorship for a little while. know, our main business, sports business, builds Alicart AI-based sponsorship solutions. literally, the sponsorship ecosystem, match, maximize, measure. Best fit? What do I do with it? What did I get? And what should I do differently? Let's take Polo. Give us an example of how, outside of just the beautiful biannual

if you will, catwalk of how they usher in very cleverly their clothing line and make something of this branding that Polo, I have never, and I've worked with a lot of apparel brands. I don't know if I've, and I've never, I'm trying to think in my career, 35 years, I don't think I ever worked with Polo as a client of mine. But just in my discussions,

I don't think I've ever met a more serious brand about a sponsorship. Then perhaps, I mean, it's probably up there in the paragon of multiples of theirs the way they see it. But there's no question. The Ryder Cup for them is this Mount Rushmore of an experience. How does that ultimately get down to, as you said, you want fans to experience golf differently? What's the correlation there?

Luke (18:53.674)
Yeah, I mean, Polo is a great example of the I thought you were going to ask me about the sport of Polo and I was like, we're to go in a whole other territory. I like, didn't know I didn't know I signed up. I didn't know I'd signed up for that. Yeah.

Steve (18:59.758)
Well, now that you're bringing it up, that was a little Freudian. Thank you. I didn't realize in my near conscious it was really about the horse and the mallet. Please.

Luke (19:13.898)
Yeah, it's a good question. We're thrilled to have Paul Ralph Lauren as a sponsor for a number years. Yeah, yeah. A really long time and the partnership keeps growing, right? And we're still working through the ways that we're going to activate with them on site and more broadly at Ryder Cup. But it starts with the uniform, right? It starts with the team uniform for the US team. You know, they lean in.

Steve (19:20.268)
We've had a long time, haven't we?

Luke (19:42.38)
to the most patriotic sports occasions that they can, right? So we are really lucky to be thought of there in the same way that the Olympics is with the U.S. team as an example. They're continuing to look for ways to expand beyond that uniform unveil and how that leads to commerce for them. There's a couple of things in the works for this year still not finalized, but...

You know, they may bring in some of the Ralph Lauren home collection, know, furniture and things of that nature to provide like seating lounges for fans in certain areas on site. we are working. Yeah.

Steve (20:18.35)
Do you think, I've got to, you know, I'm gonna, I need to interject there because having done that and trying my darndest with our teams when I used to be on the event side of ownership, do you think fans, you and I, if you in particular were not working at the PGA Tour of America, do you think we show up at a venue and go into a VIP corporate hospitality environment?

And do you think it registers with us? I know you got to, I know you have to endorse this in a certain way, but I also understand that we can explore this and understand, if not, how do we get fans to do so?

Luke (21:01.76)
Yeah, to get him to care. I mean, if I didn't believe that fans cared about what they were seeing on site, then I'm in the wrong career.

Steve (21:10.35)
So the VIP corporate hospitality of coming in with the home collection, Polo, and the idea that I'm sitting in something that is a state-of-the-art, if you will, Ralph Lauren design, in that regard, you feel that the VIPs are going to have a more enriched experience. Do you think it would be memorable to them? In other words, if we did recall, I take them out 24, 48 hours later, do you recall after the event?

Luke (21:14.334)
Yeah, think, mean look, it's...

Luke (21:22.614)
Yeah.

Luke (21:30.081)
Yes.

Steve (21:38.06)
what experience you had at VIP environment.

Luke (21:39.82)
We talk about this all the time. think if done right, the answer is yes. And I think what done right means, one of the things it can mean is that there's all these pain points in any sporting event and any other kind of sponsorship platform that you can think of. And we're always trying to solve those pain points. And in this example, the furniture example I was talking about, the decor example, one of the pain points is that

Steve (21:48.942)
Thanks.

Luke (22:07.776)
you know, when you're at a golf event, you are waiting for a shuttle, right? Or you are, or you are waiting to get into an event, right? Another pain point could be that it is hard to watch golf up close because the crowds are really big, right? Like there's, you know, there's, there's a half dozen to a dozen pain points. And I think if a partner comes in to help you solve one of those issues, that's what becomes memorable, right? Otherwise,

Steve (22:11.726)
Mm-hmm.

Luke (22:34.92)
Otherwise it's wallpaper and that's a concern. Right? So I think in this case, you know, to get more specific for something that's not totally final yet, but I think the idea would be for some of our VIP clients, there may be a slight wait for a shuttle to get out to your hospitality or the first team when you're getting there. It's it's a golf course. It's not necessarily super easy to get around.

And providing some comfortable furniture and some shade and maybe some light FMB for people as they're waiting, I do think there's a pretty good chance of recall, right? When someone has solved a problem for a specter at one of these events. That's certainly what we hope.

Steve (23:13.474)
Yeah, you know, it's interesting when I look at their apparel, it is so distinctively polo, right? As you said, it's patriotic and it's just everything about it screams out polo identity. And I hear you, the idea is activation, getting brands to have a more intimate relationship with spectators, particularly those who can buy their product lines is so vital for your relationship and for the...

bringing quality to a sponsor so they won't get churned. And we involve them in a way that, and obviously there's no better poster child for your, just as an affirmation of what you do so well at the PGA Tour of America than looking at the longevity of relationships that you guys have sustained. You've cultivated nurtured relationships. Clearly those brands value that relationship with the PGA Tour of America. In a world where churn can be

very routine, right? I tried something, did it, exhausted the contract length and moved along. By the way, how many different sponsors do we have? I know you have a worldwide partner in the form of BMW, you have Rolex, you got Citi that's with you on a worldwide basis. If we look at some of the big boys, how many do we have on a global level? Or maybe let me do a better job in questioning.

How many strata of sponsorship categories do we have? And could you give us an understanding of the quantity in each?

Luke (24:48.394)
Absolutely. Across the board for the entire association, we have about 30 partners. But it is bifurcated between the Ryder Cup, which is one pillar, and then the PGA of America, which is the other pillar and includes PGA Championship and KPMG Women's PGA Championship underneath it. They both have fairly similar structures to the way that the portfolios are built. There is a top tier for Ryder Cup, its worldwide partner for PGA Championship and Women's PGA Championship.

it's official partner. And then there's a layer below, is like our official supplier, official supporters here. That is that that second tier behind each one. I'd say, you know, there's about 15 partners for Ryder Cup and about 15 partners on the PGA of America side. But again, we do separate a little bit because there are different objectives, different approaches. The, you know, the global nature of the Ryder Cup is different. So

That's why we separate it the way that we do, but it is about across the board.

Steve (25:49.973)
So some of the big boys cap Gemini, Rolex, we mentioned BMW, Citi. We have SAP. Aeon, there was one that I didn't understand it as a worldwide partner in the context of how the other brands were being represented on your RyderCup.com website. And that was the DP World Tour.

Luke (26:15.98)
Yeah, yeah.

Steve (26:17.078)
So if you can help me, I understand you might have a relationship in the context of obviously this is the United States against Europe and you have an organizing body in the form of the golf officials from across the lake. But I didn't fully understand it in the context of worldwide partner. Thank you.

Luke (26:36.576)
Happy, happy to explain. So it's, actually not the tour itself. It's DP World, brand and, and, and, and the logistics brand. So they, DP World is the title sponsor of the DP World tour in Europe. The, the DP World tour, the European tour is one of the partners in the Ryder Cup entity overall. And obviously they have a very close relationship with DP World. DP World though is a premier global logistics company.

Steve (26:43.116)
thank you.

Steve (27:00.844)
Yeah.

Luke (27:05.164)
And as you would imagine, there are a number of kind of international logistic elements that go into delivering the Ryder Cup, right? As simple as, you know, one example is shipping things from one place to another, right? Is one example. And DP World is very interested in growing the game globally too, that's important to them. So that's why it's a natural fit. But of course, the relationship starts with DP World's connectivity to the European tour.

and how they've been together for a number of years.

Steve (27:36.975)
No, it's a logical fit just for those who don't know DP Dubai port world Dubai port world. I'm tempted to enter the world of the mammoth amount of money coming in from the Middle East in all forms of sport in Europe and the United States over the last 40 years 35 years in particular, perhaps for another conversation. What I'm interested in

And I know again, going back to your expertise, which you've been in this industry in variety of levels and as global partners and just being, living, breathing the concept of, we work so hard to secure a client. And by the way, that sense of validation you get when you're the rights owner.

is one of the greatest feelings on the planet Earth, right? You have something very coveted. mean, for me, when I look at, of course, having of all the golf club professionals, it's a unique identity, the 31,000 members you have. But again, the flagship events you maintain, these are a major, both male and female. And then again, the rider cut.

Steve (29:02.402)
From a sponsor standpoint, I know what it is from an investment banking standpoint, and it's absolutely nebulous, null, zero. Believe it or not, in the history of acquisition, of team acquisition, by historically high net worths, or now the private equity realm augmenting it, the idea of a winning record never made a difference, right? We thought it might. That team has a wonderful

legacy of winning a Super Bowl, winning the NBA finals. But in reality, actually, team valuations don't necessarily have a correlation. And so when we look at the Ryder Cup history, it's very interesting when you look at the American level of success. I believe we are at, what is it, about 27

to 15 on historically United States victories versus European victories, 15. So I wanted to point out 1995 till now, and thank you so much for leading me, my co-host today. At the end of the day, Luke, we have 10, since 1995, 10 victories for the Europeans, four for the United States. It's been a tough, tough road since.

Luke (30:07.614)
It's been very different recently, but we get it.

Luke (30:16.481)
Yeah.

Steve (30:30.312)
literally over the past 30 years. This is a 30 year legacy now where we've lost 10 to four if we're thinking from a United States vantage point. When you're, and I understand you have global relationships, and you are the global head, head of global. When you look at a sponsor in the United States side, how fundamental, how core is it to their decision making, if at all, the history of the United States

and their victorious nature against the Europeans.

Luke (31:01.676)
I don't think it's, I don't think it's a factor. think what is a factor is that the rivalry is intact. Right. And I don't think, you know, look, if, one of the teams lost 10, 12, 14 times in a row, like that's going to change the nature of the rivalry. It's not really rivalry anymore. Right. I'm a, I'm going to take a shot at Boston fans here. Like I'm a Yankee fan. And you know, obviously that's one of the greatest rivalries in sports, but you know, for

for very long time, Yankees were on top of that rivalry, right? When it flipped a little bit in, um, in 2003, like that made the rivalry even better. You need both sides to win occasionally for it to be a, for it to be a true rivalry. I think there's enough success on both sides that the rivalry is as strong as it has ever been at the Ryder Cup. Um, and it's not like most of these events have been blowouts, right? They've been reasonably close. Um, you go into the event, not being sure who's going to win.

And so because of that, I think the partners that we talk to are as focused on the rivalry element as anything. And you could see that come out when you're on site. You can see that come out through viewership that people are watching and people are caring because the players care as much as ever. And so, you know, even though the U.S. team has been on the short side of it more often than not recently, I don't think it's fundamentally changed the value of the event and the interest in the event. And I don't see that changing anytime soon.

To that end, I think it also shows itself in the fact that partner interest is as strong as ever. We have seven worldwide partners going into this Ryder Cup at the top level. As recently as 2018, we had one, right? It went as we were launching the program. So I think the proof is in the pudding as to partner interest.

Steve (32:52.162)
What percent of them play both sides, PGA championship, KPGM, women's, both men's and women's?

Luke (32:56.824)
From a Ryder Cup perspective of that top level partner base, it's currently, for the top level, it's currently only one. There are more down the chain a little bit on the Ryder Cup side. Pepsi has an example of someone who's a supplier at the Ryder Cup and also in the PGA ecosystem. the reason behind that is what I mentioned before about why we bifurcated the two elements.

brand that has interest in the rider cup is not necessarily going to have interest in the PGA of America on annual basis and vice versa. Right. There are, yeah, there, there, there's different components to it. Right. I mean, the rider cup is once every two years, it moves all over the world. You need, know, if you're going to take advantage of hospitality at the rider cup across multiple rider cups, you need to be a brand that wants to host people in New York and Rome and Ireland.

Steve (33:33.998)
Take us down that path.

Steve (33:51.086)
Excellent. Ireland, yeah.

Luke (33:53.792)
Right? Yeah. And Ireland, right? And then, and then Minneapolis after that. that's, you know, there's kind of a unique brand for that as opposed to PGA championship and KPMG women's PGA championship, which aren't domestic in nature and, you know, move to major cities around the U S that's one, I think, you know, the other point is that, you know, when someone comes into sponsor, the PGA championship and women's PGA championship, we're usually going to tie a PGA of America grassroots initiative to it. Like I was talking about before that.

make sense for some brands and not for others. Right? So there's, think what we have found along the way is that the best way to sell sponsorships is to make sure that you are customizing to meet somebody's objectives. And if we were trying to quote unquote force a brand to take both the Ryder Cup and those other elements, it's unlikely that all of those things are going to meet a brand's objectives. It's just the nature of it.

Steve (34:47.118)
What does that do to the financial model?

Luke (34:48.908)
We think it's helped it. think it's actually create, you know, look, if we were going to have one tier of partners that sits across the top of everything and we combined all that stuff together, you're not going to be able to sell 15 of those deals, right? The too much clutter, not enough inventory. Um, and brands aren't looking for that. They're looking for an exclusive position, being able to put these things separate and kind of carve them out that way. I think in the long run, it's actually provided more financial opportunity for us.

Steve (35:16.344)
By the way, when you look at the naming rights nomenclature, there's no outside of Samuel writers name. That's the closest we get to a naming rights title sponsorship. So what type of outside of VIP corporate hospital because I can sponsor an event and just buy into the VIP corporate hospitality and have no relationship to being an official partner of the PGA championship or the writer cup. We are selling independent.

VIP corporate hospitality. In fact, if I remember correctly, and please don't hold me to this quote, but one of my, actually Ryan, whom you met earlier, one of our marketing team members, I think we looked at some of the work on the PGA Tour and we were looking on average, somewhere between 200 and 250, VIP corporate hospitality partners for a singular, let's call it Wells Fargo Championship, now the truest, you mentioned Quell Hollow, where the PGA Championship was just staged.

in the beautiful Charlotte, North Carolina, I think they had 250 official partners in the VIP corporate hospitality realm. That does not mean they're going to be affiliated with the organizing body. So help us understand the span, the gamut, if we could. On a low side, what might be the barrier to entry on the low side? And what is that upper echelon that I might spend, if you will, and I wanna just really break it down, Ryder Cup, PGA Championship.

Luke (36:24.908)
Of Of course.

Luke (36:29.152)
Yeah, yeah, it's got me.

Steve (36:42.679)
fused together.

Luke (36:43.07)
If it's okay, let me, let me talk a little bit about, like the difference was between a corporate hospitality purchase and a, and a sponsorship, right? For us, I don't know how much I want to get into the pricing, but I'll kind of talk around it. The, you know, we have similar numbers of corporate hospitality purchasers to what you just mentioned at the Ryder cup and maybe even more at Ryder cup. and anybody can buy that, if you, if you're interested in running a program, but what you don't get completely sold out.

Steve (36:50.382)
Please. Excellent. Excellent.

Steve (37:09.71)
Is that third party sold by the way?

Luke (37:12.364)
no, sorry. We sell that directly. We sell that directly. That's correct. Yeah. No, it's, it's red, you know, and a new market all the time and, building an infrastructure in that city.

Steve (37:13.59)
No, is that third party? Third party soul.

Steve (37:18.954)
all done under the auspices of your organization. That's an enormous undertaking. Wow.

Steve (37:28.263)
How many people does it require to undertake from start to finish that type of operation?

Luke (37:31.668)
Yeah, we have a national hospitality sales staff and then a local team as well. know, give or take. Yeah, give or take, you know, 12 to 15, something like that right across the board. not in terms of selling and, you know, and servicing those hospitality purchases. The actual like build and execution on site is a whole other new.

Steve (37:37.998)
both sales and operational fulfillment.

Steve (37:46.926)
12 to 15 service.

Steve (37:56.009)
But people getting all of their credentials, making sure they're happy, making sure everything that you've sold.

Luke (37:58.82)
That's a, that's a much bigger army who is, who is controlling that stuff. I don't know that, you know, in terms of, terms of the onsite, making sure that everything is taken care of, that's a bigger group. I'm not sure the exact number internally as well internally as well. Yeah. We're also lucky to have a number of volunteers. Like there's a, there's a pretty significant structure in place. But for hospitality purchasers, obviously you're purchasing hospitality and it's amazing. And that's what you get for, for a sponsor of ours.

Steve (38:09.934)
And that's internally as internally unbelievable. Okay, clear.

Luke (38:28.096)
There's all sorts of other meaningful assets that are included. mean, the key one right off the bat is access to intellectual property of the event, which we've seen through numerous studies that there's significant lift when a brand is associating themselves with the Ryder Cup or the PGA championship.

Steve (38:45.782)
But you have that. You have that by virtue of... If I'm sending out an invite to Luke Reisman to be my guest at the Ryder Cup, I'm inviting them with that intellectual property. I'm sending them powerfully. I might have digital or... The nomenclature, my invitations...

Luke (38:54.762)
Yeah, fair enough. I don't think it accomplishes the same connectivity as a brand campaign or a marketing message that you associate. But yes, sure, there is some basic IP associated with the invite. I think we take it to a much deeper level with our partners. There's also...

Steve (39:07.83)
Agreed. Absolutely.

Steve (39:17.582)
100%.

Luke (39:19.052)
And you know, other really meaningful assets. There is a broadcast media spend associated with our top level partners. so for the rider cup on NBC, yeah, so there is, you know, there is a built in broadcast, element in our, in our contracts that could in some cases be, spots and features, things like that on the, on the actual broadcast. In other cases, it's a fund.

Steve (39:27.042)
What does that mean?

Luke (39:46.124)
for lack of a better word, that the brands can spend against those media assets. So in some cases we'll build it in and in some cases we'll kind of kick the conversation to our broadcasters. But there is a very significant broadcast component to these deals. There is a significant digital and social component to these deals. So we are, you know, digital media and then creating branded content hand in hand with our partners.

Luke (40:14.848)
That is really critical. We provide experiences that hospitality purchasers wouldn't get on their own. So I mentioned the point before about playing the golf course the Monday after, right? That is something that's only available to our partners. We are hosting a number of ancillary events during the week that are only available to our partners. So when someone comes in as a hospitality purchaser, their experience sort of ends at the golf course, right? For us, we extend that experience broadly.

Beyond the golf course throughout the weekend and in other cases. So those are just a few examples on site signage is another big one If you watch the broadcast of the Ryder Cup or the PGA championship You'll see those top-level partners coming through in t signage and mesh throughout the golf course in a way that benefits the exposure data for those partners in an enormous way Really important really important the

Steve (41:05.4)
How important is that last one to the cloud? So they value that physical signage at venue is extremely important to those sponsors.

Luke (41:14.92)
Immensely, right? mean, if there's a look, it's if that was the only thing that was in a sponsorship, that wouldn't be enough to get these deals done, right? Like people are in as I know you've seen, people aren't looking for only logo slaps these days. But I think it's sort of like the stamp of approval on the partnership to make sure that people are really visible and certainly accomplish.

Steve (41:19.416)
How did that?

Steve (41:36.257)
And if you will, the way they qualify the value, is the, if you will, if we want to look at the qualitative nature of how they understand what that exposure at physically at venue that was getting broadcast exposure and other means of exposure that is earned media, how do your brands go about assessing how they fared?

Luke (42:04.02)
Yeah, we do. we do a report, with a third party, that we, that we share, that quantifies the data, from, from the, we actually do something really cool. do real time, valuation of the, of the signage as it's happening almost real time. It's more nightly, guess the real time, but like every day we're doing it. Yeah. Yeah. As close as we can to real time, to make changes during the week, if we need to in terms of placements, right? So like there.

Steve (42:21.262)
Mmm.

Steve (42:26.84)
In your real time.

Steve (42:33.954)
You're the first association in 35 years I've heard that from.

Luke (42:37.964)
Yeah, we, I mean, we've had situations where, you know, let's use a easier round number. If we've had four partners at an event, four top level partners, you know, we're hoping that each of them will receive about 25 % share of voice from the stuff that they're getting. If we find out overnight that because of the way the broadcast picked up certain holes or something else, that one brand is lagging at 10 and another brand is getting 40, we actually make some changes to hole placements and other things.

to try and get as close to that equity model as we possibly can, which has been amazing. It's been really helpful.

Steve (43:09.016)
Fascinating, fascinating. Is there any coordination between you and the network?

Luke (43:13.17)
Yes. Although we have to be careful not to dictate the broadcast too much, right? We don't want them to cover things that aren't naturally connected to the storyline of the event. But yes, if we, if we, if there's a, a signage placement on a tee box, that's not getting picked up as well as it should, we'll talk to the network and, you know, see if they can slightly adjust camera placements or, or other things like that to pick them up better. so we'll do that when we can. Yeah.

Steve (43:40.719)
Luke, it just wonderful being a rights owner? When you sold them the broadcast rights, it's a beautiful, beautiful thing. if you will, give us, I don't want to get in, we're not an invasive broadcast here to be interested in pinpointing what did BMW spend. But this is not rocket science and this is not coveted intellectual property. Give us a range, if you will, on sponsorship. Just what should we see

Luke (43:42.956)
Yeah, I thought you were to ask more about... Right, right, yeah.

Luke (44:07.936)
Yeah. Yeah. I'm happy to give a range. mean, there's, you know, we have again, cause our deals are not solely financial based, right? There's a lot of other mission support and other things that we care about. But we've had deals, you know, in the, in the six figures range for certain categories, you know, there's deals at three, four or $500,000 annually that we would do for certain reasons. And then there's no, definitely not. Definitely not.

Steve (44:10.016)
on a range basis.

Steve (44:33.794)
Would I be a worldwide partner at that level? Is that possible? No.

Luke (44:37.364)
And then there's, and then there's deals that are upwards of $10 million annually, right? based on, based on a number of factors and everywhere in between those two again.

Steve (44:47.694)
Yeah, no, thank you for sharing that. By the way, it's interesting. One thing I didn't hear is I didn't hear anything about Proam in your discussion thus far.

Luke (44:57.578)
Yeah, we, there is a dynamic at play. So we do have a program for the KPMG women's PGA championship. that, that exists and that's a really important initiative and event. It's really important to KPMG. they're able to, to use a number of those spots for key stakeholders for them. We, we offer it to other, other folks as well. But for the Ryder Cup and PGA championship, we think those events just sort of occupy a little bit of a different territory, in terms of player preparation. and.

you know, as opposed to week to week PGA tour events, which are really important and critical to the players. We want to give the players an opportunity to focus on another level, right? And not that a pro-lem is not something that is additive to a lot of events, but for us, we just don't think it really fits with a major championship in the case of the PGA championship or the premier global competition in the case of the Ryder Cup. we don't have an

Steve (45:29.548)
So, yeah.

Steve (45:51.766)
It's just a distraction. You feel it from an athlete's standpoint. It's just...

Luke (45:53.93)
Could be, it could, it could be, it could be the, we, we supplemently we, alternatively, guess is the best way to say it. That's where we feel our Monday after outing comes into play. Right. So in the alternative to, to a Tuesday or Wednesday program is the ability to play the golf course on the Monday after with the same pin positions that the players played it on Sunday, the same general course conditions. And we found it to be, you know, similarly valuable for us.

Steve (46:09.827)
Yeah.

Steve (46:22.094)
Do you bring in any veteran athletes for that?

Luke (46:24.0)
We have, one of my favorite programs that we've ever done, we did a sweepstakes with Cadillac a number of years ago. Lexus is our partner now and they're amazing. But while Cadillac was around, we did a sweepstakes where people were entered to win a chance to play golf with Josh Allen, the Bills quarterback at Oak Hill in Rochester the day after the PGA championship. And it was amazing. It was really.

Steve (46:45.07)
Nice, nice, nice.

What? I love your Yankee reference, your bills. Just our New York, you can take the boy out of New York, but you can't take the New York out of the boy. So let me conclude by the following. By the way, nice on Lexus because they're longstanding one at the time, five USGA sponsors nationally.

Luke (46:52.5)
Yeah, yeah, no, there's a deeper sport in knowledge.

Right, for sure.

Steve (47:13.612)
So to bring them into the US PGA Championship makes a whole lot of sense and obviously managing it from an official vehicle partnership, one of the most coveted products that you can get in an operation of an event. Certainly they're up there in the paragon of most important. Listen, as you said, we could spend three hours on many subjects and a heck of a guest, fascinating. You've had a wonderful 22 year trajectory from velocity.

to obviously the PGA Tour of America. And since 2018, it seems like you went from one global partner to six, seven. And I would have to say that has a lot to do with the head of global sponsorship, for which you were formerly the head of sponsorship. So Luke, it sounds like you've had a stellar career, one that will continue to just rise with your

what I would say very transparent and very relaxed means of communication. And without a doubt, it was a pure privilege to have you on the transaction report today.

Luke (48:19.318)
Thank you so much for having me. It was a blast. I enjoyed the conversation as well.

Steve (48:25.591)
Meaningful we're gonna hold you for one minute so we can upload