Steve Feuerstein (00:03.919)
What a privilege it is to have today on the transaction report. NFO, give me one moment. Let me just get this re -established.

Steve Feuerstein (00:17.287)
Okay, we're gonna retake and Kyle Rudolph, former NFL professional football player, tight end, pro baller, what an honor it is to have you on the Transaction Report today.

Kyle Rudolph (00:31.897)
Thanks Steve, I appreciate it. Really excited to be on with

Steve Feuerstein (00:36.027)
Well, you know, it's interesting for us. You know, we've worked as property owners of events. We've represented athletes in our careers, those in our company at SportsBiz. And we really marvel at the complexity of the business of sport. And one of perhaps the most useful aspects for our viewers today is we talk so much as professionals about the business of sport.

But very often you forget that one of the most fundamental ways of impacting change between the brand, the corporate brand, and business of sports relationship is through a professional, collegiate, or high school athlete. And so you, with your vantage point, to us is one of the most fascinating aspects. Obviously there's team league association and events to sponsor and stadia.

but you represent one of the biggest stakeholders in the business of sport and without you there is no game. So I'm gonna start with your mindset of what makes for an elite relationship between brand and athlete in the sponsorship process.

Kyle Rudolph (01:51.278)
think the biggest thing for me over the course of my 12 years as a player and I think about kind of the transition from a 21 year old rookie getting to the National Football League, achieving your dreams, what sponsorship and brand deals looked like at that time in my career. I think of kind of the immediate thing that everyone does right away are trading cards.

It's like you have your own trading card for the first time and you're signing as many trading cards as they'll send you You're starting to kick them out even before you've even been drafted by a team something that I was starting to do While in Southern, California training for the combine in pro day and getting ready for the draft Now you're signing trading cards for these massive trading card companies Then you're you're drafted into the NFL. You realize your dream of becoming a professional athlete

And now you start accumulating these brand deals. And for me as a young player, there really wasn't a lot of strategy behind it. You mentioned there's the corporate partners who have league deals that have team deals. Oftentimes those partners would work directly with your agent. Hey, so and so brand works with this team. You have players on that team. Who would be a good fit?

The biggest brand opportunity for us in the NFL is obviously the Super Bowl. So you go to the Super Bowl every year, whether you're playing in it not. I've been to the last 14 Super Bowls. So from 2010 to this year, I've been to every Super Bowl. And it's a massive opportunity to engage in these corporate brands who sponsor league, sponsor team, and have individual opportunities as well.

For me, the biggest thing was there was really no strategy. It was, okay, who's the brand? Do I like the brand? Yes. How much do they pay me to do it? Is that worth my time? Okay, perfect. I'll do it. Or no, I'll pass on this one. And really for me, about four to five years into my career, I started to think differently. And I started to think like, okay, Kyle Rudolph himself

Kyle Rudolph (04:16.632)
also a brand and how does he want to show his brand to the rest of world? Who does he want to associate his brand with? And I started to get a lot more strategic about the partnerships that I engaged in and really tried to make it more of a two -way street as opposed to just a transactional relationship where, like I said before, brand reaches out to agent, agent reaches out to player, gives player.

time commitment, budget and brand and you say yes or no, you do the appearance, you collect the check and then you move on. For me about halfway through my career, I really started to think about, you know, what is a more relationship based transaction look like? How can

Steve Feuerstein (05:04.901)
I want to get to that and just interject quickly, Kyle, because you mentioned so many critical aspects of an athlete and obviously one who is cerebral and driven and motivated to represent value and you clearly thought about your value proposition. I want to unpack a few comments you made before we proceed. First and foremost, you mentioned the trading card business.

and you said signing a lot of autographs. And there are a lot of folk who don't give that some color. What does that mean to sign a lot of quantify and qualify what it means to sign a lot of autographs?

Kyle Rudolph (05:41.799)
Yeah, I I remember being in the apartment I was living in in Southern California, again, training for the combine, getting ready for my pro day and thousands of trading cards would show up or thousands of stickers that you would ultimately sign and then they would go on trading cards. you know, you'd sign these massive deals with brands like Panini and, you know, they're one of the biggest trading card brands in the market. And

for us as, you you think about it, at that time, this was before NIL. I didn't have any money at that time. My agent was paying for my apartment. My agent was paying for my training and my food. So the only way for me to make money at that point were these trading card deals. And so again, it was one of those things, how much do I get paid per autograph? Okay, how many? I think, I

Steve Feuerstein (06:35.759)
How much did you get paid for audit? How much did you get paid for audit?

Kyle Rudolph (06:39.827)
Going back, I was making like $12 or $14 a signature at that time as a rookie going into league. And they really slotted it based on kind of where you were projected and then obviously based on position. So if you were a quarterback that was going to be projected to go in the first round, you were going to get significantly more per signature than say a tight end who was potentially going to go in the first round, most likely in the second round. So I went in the second round, correct.

Steve Feuerstein (07:06.405)
which you went to Minnesota in the second. And what would be the differential for your knowledge between a quarterback per signature fee that they were commanding versus a tight end like your good self?

Kyle Rudolph (07:18.804)
Probably double. know, my again, this that's a complete shot in the dark off of recollection from almost 15 years ago now. But I think there were quite a few guys that were getting, you know, upwards of 30 ish dollars per signature. And again, it was way more of a quantity play over a quality. You were getting sheets of stickers. And I remember one time I had gotten behind, they would send, you know, cards and stickers. And also I was

I've got about 3 ,000 autographs to sign and get them back to them as quickly as possible. And you just sit there and just start ripping out signatures for hours at a time. But

Steve Feuerstein (07:59.175)
Kyle, just one interjection again, any brothers in the family? Was his signature pretty much like yours?

Kyle Rudolph (08:03.347)
Yeah, so I have a younger brother. He's 15 months younger.

No, it wasn't. And at that time, it was like, I didn't trust anyone else to help me. I'm like, no, I this. This is how I make money. Like I have to sign these. So you get in there and like I said, you just block out a couple hours and it was almost like punishment in in school when you were a kid where you have to like write, I will not do this 150 times on a sheet of paper or something. You're just, you know, going sometimes I'd go up and down. Sometimes I'd go left or

When you're doing trading cards like signing there's like an art to how quickly you can move on to the next one

Steve Feuerstein (08:44.103)
Kyle, quick anecdote. So I used to own a lot of professional golf among other sports events. I remember that I had John Daly and at the same event, I believe, Tom Watson. And we brought Watson 100 golf balls to sign. And I tell you, it was purgatory for the guy. So you're signing 3 ,000 of these. I imagine you have a good ball game on.

Kyle Rudolph (09:04.603)
Yeah, you know, it's one of the things I think I do remember at that time. It was like January, the NFL playoffs were on and I just sit there and watch games all day Saturday, all day Sunday and catch up on my trading cards that I had to sign.

Steve Feuerstein (09:20.999)
I mean, that is just so ridiculously real. And the vast majority of folk in the business world don't realize what you guys go through in attempting to satisfy the fanatics of the world. And by the way, so that was a $12 to $14 spread. What would a card like that trade for today?

Kyle Rudolph (09:43.734)
I have no idea. I'm not very up to speed on the trading card world. It's amazing the way trading cards have kind of exploded. You know, you go back to 2010, 2011 when I was coming out of college and yeah, it was something we all did. We all signed the trading cards, especially as skilled players. You know, we had these trading card deals, but really, you know, for me, like I think back to, you know, last five, six years and

Collectors and cards have really become a huge deal and you're seeing a ton of value in some of these cards But for us again, it was you know, I came from a family that didn't have very much money I played at a time in college where we didn't have NIL You know, I survived on dining hall meals and you know the points we got on campus to buy snacks and stuff like

So when I had the opportunity to make money by signing a card, I jumped at it. You couldn't give me enough cards. like, this is the easiest money I've ever made in my life. I never made money in my life before. So it was like, please give me as many cards as you could possibly give.

Steve Feuerstein (10:57.895)
You know what's so interesting is in 2022, fanatics, fanatics actually acquired tops for half a billion bucks. And you're 100 % right. It's become a complete, when I was a boy, it was about flipping cards and you would win cards by playing a game on how you could be dominant.

in throwing your card over another player's card and actually collect cards by competing against others. So what you're sharing with us to distill it down into the reality of your life is that coming out of the gate out of college as one of the greatest players in your role at the University of Notre Dame, by the way I should mention one of

number one investors into our company, sports biz happens to be Jay Jordan, who was the head of the endowment committee, gave a $75 million gift to Notre Dame, which was for us, you know, we have a lot of connection to your alma mater. With that said, I want to transition to the next phase of what you discussed. So you went from trading card, obviously for you it was a survivalist mentality. It was something you did recognize and that you know what, if you're getting $12 to $14 a card and you're signing thousands of them, then

obviously you're starting to be able to have a meaningful function, at least functional day -to -day life. With that said, where did your next step, what was your next step taken? You mentioned, I know that years ago you went into a more proactive role versus reactive. And you said you identified a brand. That sounds like four or five years ago you said, or was that four or five years into the game you started to recognize you are a brand.

Kyle Rudolph (12:33.675)
Yeah, correct Steve. It was like four or five years into my career and it really timed up with, you know, when you think of life as a professional athlete. I mentioned you come in as a rookie, a majority of opportunity for rookies prior to draft, the appearances are, I should say the brand deals are these trading card deals. It's, you know, now NIL, it's completely different. These guys are coming into the NFL with brand deals. They've been making money in college. But for us at the time,

You had the NFLPA put on a rookie premiere, which was, again, an opportunity for you post -draft, the first time to get your pictures taken in your new uniform. That's when they make your rookie card and do all this stuff from a trading card standpoint. And then you transition into your rookie season. And for me at that time, I signed an Adidas contract. Notre Dame had an Adidas deal.

I stayed in Adidas footwear for my first two years Sorry, there's a siren in the background. Can you hear it? I let them go by and

Steve Feuerstein (13:37.812)
No worries at all. No worries at all. But why don't we pick up once that's gone and if you don't mind I'd like to probe into that Adidas deal if it's acceptable to you. So why don't you start with Notre Dame had a when you're ready we'll start with Notre Dame had a deal with Adidas.

Kyle Rudolph (13:48.791)
Mm -hmm. Yeah, absolutely.

Kyle Rudolph (13:57.84)
Notre Dame had a deal with Adidas at that time. I think it was actually the largest team deal for Adidas, rightfully so with the Notre Dame brand that you were talking about. So for me, coming into the NFL, it was important for Adidas to keep their own in their footwear. So I signed a two -year Adidas deal coming into the NFL, and that was one of my first brand partnerships.

Steve Feuerstein (14:21.039)
I know it was very important for them to keep it in the family. What made it compelling to you? Take us through the mechanics. Obviously financial, for most athletes, for most, will be the biggest driver. So was that, what would you say compelled you that made it the deal? We understand what motivated them. Could you describe specifically what motivated you and how to quantify that, please?

Kyle Rudolph (14:47.821)
Yeah, for me, it was mostly financial as well. I grew up, my dad was in sporting goods my whole childhood. I wore Nike, everything. I grew up playing basketball on Nikes, football on Nikes. had Nike baseball cleats. I was Nike everything. Went to Notre Dame, obviously wore Adidas for three years.

And the whole time I was at school, was, man, I can't wait to get back in Nike. Like, I just can't wait to get back to Nike. As soon as I get to the NFL, I'm wearing Nike again. Well, at that time, going into the 2011 season, Nike was on the verge of getting the NFL deal from Reebok. So Reebok had the NFL license at that time. Nike was starting to make their bid to become the league wide sponsor. This and doing so,

They started to scale back on some of their individual deals. And again, as a second round tight end, Nike's not really opening their checkbook a whole lot. Whereas Adidas, as you mentioned, they wanted to keep their own. A guy who had been in Adidas for the last three years, had a ton of success on a national stage at Notre Dame in Adidas. They put me in a commercial. They upped the stakes financially as well. And you know, for

Yes, I was signing a contract with the Minnesota Vikings that was more money than I ever would have envisioned in my life. But at the same time, it's not that big second contract where you go, okay, $4 million over the course of four years, which was about what my rookie contract is. That's not going to change your life for the rest of your life. It's certainly going to change your life currently.

So for me again early in my career, it was off the field. How can I make decisions? Financially to make as much money as I possibly can to put as much of that four million dollars, which it's not four million dollars Uncle Sam takes half or more depending on where you play you got your agent fees There's all different types of fees that are coming out before ultimately you collect what you collect but for me the way I saw it

Kyle Rudolph (17:06.019)
If I can financially support myself off the field, if I can sign these contracts like a two -year deal with Adidas where that can help now take care of some of my living expenses and daily expenses that I have now living on my own, I can put as much of that contract away as possible.

Steve Feuerstein (17:23.591)
A lot of athletes at the time get, as you know, lot of your former teammates and many other star college players, very often will suffice just to get product. Very often they're not even seeing cash. To try and get that amount of money, we over the, in that rookie two -year deal, were we over six figures at that time or were we more between the 50 to 60 ,000 range?

Kyle Rudolph (17:50.203)
No, it was more like between 50 and 60. But for me, I think back to probably right about that number, I think it was about 50. And then, you know, obviously having the opportunity to get cash and product, like you said, I mean, everything I wore for my first two years is pretty much Adidas shoes, sweatshirts, t -shirts, they were constantly sending gear to the house, even when I wouldn't go on and use my allotment that we were provided from a merchandise standpoint. So

You know, for me, was like, okay, I don't need to really go buy all that many clothes because they're sending them all. But then the opportunity to get cash. You mentioned most players just getting product. That's exactly where Nike was heading. If you weren't a Pro Bowl quarterback or a first round skill player, there really wasn't a lot of opportunities to get cash. So to have the opportunity to get some cash in my shoe deal as a second round tight end was really important to

Steve Feuerstein (18:47.153)
You know, you reminded me of something, and again, I'm not here in any shape or fashion to talk about myself, but just because I so enjoy some of the comments you're making that remind me a part of my former career in event management, sports management, I recall distinctly that John Daly's agent, after he won the British, he played in one of my tournaments, and his agent literally called John.

And he told him, if you play in the Hong Kong Open Golf Championship, you will be able to buy a new living room. So he didn't, I think it was a six figure deal. It was a guarantee fee. It was around 100, 150 K. It was a big trip, obviously, from the States. And he was at the peak of his performance. Do you find, any, you, I like how you said it. You said, I didn't have to buy apparel. When sometimes you are doing deals,

Do you put it into that framework where you're actually not looking at the dollar amount, but you're also looking at this saves me from spending money in that

Kyle Rudolph (19:50.64)
Yeah, I mean, really it's a perfect transition into one of the other brand deals that I had as a rookie was a deal with Cadillac and having the opportunity to have a car. So again, no cash involved, but for me, I had a Cadillac Escalade. Cadillac and GM was doing a big campaign with Kyr Du Shen at that time. For

Coming into the league, I knew it was really important to use my platform to make a difference. It was something that I had done my entire life, really before I even had a platform in high school and then college as it continued to grow. And I got in touch with folks at the Dallas Super Bowl. So again, going back to the Super Bowl and how big the Super Bowl was to be around brands and interact with brands. I met a gentleman from Detroit at a Cure DuChen event at the Dallas Super Bowl.

and they ended up giving me a car deal where I had an Escalade to drive when I got to Minneapolis. yeah, it wasn't cash, but ultimately the way I saw it was I didn't have to buy a car. So now I have a vehicle to drive and didn't have to pay for that vehicle.

Steve Feuerstein (21:03.249)
You know, it's interesting. You won the Maxwell Award for the nation's number one tight end in the United States as a high school student. What do you think would have been the tale of two stories? Let's do what we call the counterfactual. Let's go back in time. Let's go come out of high school and as Kyle Rudolph, the Maxwell Award for the number one tight end in America.

What would that look like for a present Kyle Rudolph in how his trajectory going into college with NIL, and one thing we have not spoken about, is the robust social media that fuels the NIL system.

And that whole opportunity now to secure brands, what do you think would have happened if you could just take a guess wildly of being such a noted, accomplished standout in the United States?

Kyle Rudolph (22:04.702)
You know, for me, honestly, it's hard for me to imagine because I think back to every decision I made from, quite honestly, 15, 16 years old until I was 21. You know, kind of a five, let's call it six year period where at 15 years old, ultimately, I made the decision that I want to be a professional athlete. I played basketball and football in high school.

I was recruited division one for both sports, had opportunities to play both sports. Timing was different back then. This was 2005, 2006. There was a September one rule in football. So until September one of your junior year, you couldn't have an official scholarship offer. We're hearing 13, 14 year old kids now getting scholarship offers for football. It was completely different.

Steve Feuerstein (23:01.767)
By the way, Nike, your favorite brand before of course Adidas, but Nike in the last 12 months signed two deals with nine year olds for six figures in football and soccer.

Kyle Rudolph (23:13.47)
Yeah. And it's, when I think about the timing of it then, now I was 14 years old going into my freshman year high school playing an AAU basketball tournament and got my first scholarship offer to UNLV at the time. So the, the basketball recruiting was much earlier than the football recruiting. So really for me, my freshmen and through my sophomore year high school, I thought I was going to go play basketball in college and I was set on playing basketball in college.

I still played football. I love football. It was like more so like what I did with my buddies. But the nature of basketball being out of play, AAU all summer, playing for your school during the winter, you have open gym kind of in between. Like you can just always hoop. You can always play basketball. Football, we played 10 games a year. Depending on how many games we played in the playoffs, you got, you know, up to 15.

You know, for me, really the transition then, like I said, 15, 16 years old when going into my junior year, now the football recruiting starts to ramp up. recall going, you every day I'd come home from school, you'd go to the mailbox and there's letters from schools that I had never even talked to offering you scholarships to come to their university. So it was like this game we'd play every day I'd come home from school and it's like, here's two or three more.

Clemson, North Carolina, Florida State. It's like, those are the three for today. And then like you move on to the next one. So really for me at that point, I knew every decision I had to make was about not only going to play in college, but how do I take this opportunity to do this for the rest of my life and to set myself up for the rest of my life? And I think, I don't know how NIL would have affected me at that time if I was getting paid.

for my success as a 16 year old, 17 year old. Whereas to me, that's what motivated me. Like I said earlier in our conversation, I grew up in a family where both my parents worked full time. We accumulated a ton of debt to provide the resources necessary for my brother and I. And then ultimately my sister who's nine years younger to have what we needed to have to go play sports and to get a Catholic private education in Cincinnati.

Kyle Rudolph (25:36.385)
And for me, that was the motivation to ultimately get to where I was. That's what motivated me as a 16, 17, 18 year old high school student athlete. And then once I decided football is the way I want to go, I'm going to the University of Notre Dame. Then it became, I'm going to the University of Notre Dame because I believe this gives me the best chance to go play in the NFL. And I committed

Head coach Charlie Weiss, who had just come from the New England Patriots, had an NFL pedigree, knew exactly how to use tight ends exactly the same way tight ends were being used in the NFL. And, you know, for me, it's hard to imagine what it would have been like if I was able to help my parents out as a 17 -year -old. Like, hey, you know what? I'm making more money than you guys are now. You know, like, what would that have been like? I don't know.

It would have been difficult and I certainly see why kids struggle. I don't quite think we realize the ramifications of NIL yet. It's still very new, but it's a completely different dynamic in sports.

Steve Feuerstein (26:43.473)
Let's talk about those laws of unintended consequences of NIL. If you had to identify the three greatest dangers of NIL, what might they

Kyle Rudolph (26:54.081)
think first and foremost, it's kind of the, for a lack of better words, the false sense of financial security. You think about these kids, they sign a $50 ,000 NIL deal and it's a marketing deal. They get a check for $50 ,000. I've seen this even at the NFL level. Guys have opportunities. They get money off of the field. It's not pre -taxed. It's not part of your W -2 income.

And then all of a sudden, April, the following year rolls around and you got to pay taxes on that 50 grand. Well, wait a minute. I don't have the money to pay the tax. I spent that $50 ,000. Like, what do mean I got to pay income taxes on it? I, so I think that's the biggest thing is, you know, these young athletes who most of which were like me until I took a personal finance elective.

as a senior in high school because ultimately I dreamed of having money one day, I thought credit cards were bad. My parents had credit cards because we couldn't afford things. If we couldn't afford it, we put it on a credit card. If we could afford it, we just paid for it. So I think to what other individuals, other student athletes like myself would do in a situation where you're given that type of money and you don't understand like, hey, I need to put

half of this away for taxes come April. So I think that's the biggest thing. And you see these young student athletes getting large sums of money. And then ultimately when the IRS comes calling, they don't have the funds to then pay the taxes on that money that they made. And then the next thing that I think will be a big implication of NIL is exactly that.

these kids start making money at such a young age. know, like I said, every decision I made from 15 years old to 21 years old was for me to one day make it and to set myself and my family up financially for the rest of our life. Well, am I going to make all of those same decisions if I have 50, 100, $150 ,000 a year coming in and it kind of then changes the way that I think and the way that I

Kyle Rudolph (29:19.842)
you know, it's interesting. I had an opportunity speaking of my basketball career at 16. I played in a, a FIBA tournament over in Italy, with a, you know, kind of a USA team. it was in March of my sophomore year. ultimately had a ton of success in the tournament was named to the all tournament team, and had the Italian pro team approach our coach.

Asked if he could speak with me ask if my parents were there I told him no I'm here by myself with the team and he's like we want you to stay here We'll help you finish high school But we want to offer you a pro contract They offered me 750 ,000 euro to stay and play in Italy Professionally as a 16 year old which is the earliest that you can stay and play so I had to again. This is

March of 2006, I didn't have a cell phone. couldn't call my parents and be like, hey, mom and dad, I just got offered about 1 .2 million American dollar to stay here and play basketball. What do you think? I had to send them an email and say, hey, I'm here. Things are great. The tournament's going really well. by the way, they want me to stay here and live here and play professionally.

And my mom couldn't have responded to that email faster saying, get your ass home. Like, absolutely not, you're not staying over there. But to me, like when I look back at it now, that's more money than my parents would have made combined over the course of the next 10 years. So to pass on that kind of money, it's like I was very fortunate to have two parents that saw the bigger picture and said, you know what, you need to be home, you need to finish high school, you know, go to college.

So it's interesting kids are having those decisions more often

Steve Feuerstein (31:23.867)
You know, so it really, I would say, exponentially amplifies the beauty of the relationship you had with your parents. And we're so many athletes who are coming from a single parent home, very often, to see the money that you've been referencing is taking, frankly, a mother out of three jobs. So it's very much a dual edged sword. And you navigated

Kyle Rudolph (31:47.437)
Mm -hmm.

Steve Feuerstein (31:52.119)
in a way because there were those who impressed upon you very early values, very driven values that understood a, I would call, you're not just living for today. What fascinates me too about your narrative is the maturity of the decision you made about understanding that you are a brand. I cannot tell you how many athletes I've, with whom I've worked.

who and watched throughout my career, who simply go through, as you said, being the recipient of offers, but having others define their identity. I want you to help us understand, you had this epiphany four to five years into the game, pro, so you're about 26 or 27 years old. What hit you to make that decision that you didn't wanna just respond to offers? And if you could just briefly touch upon that, what was that clarion

call that you saw that said, know what, this isn't working the way I want it to work.

Kyle Rudolph (32:48.486)
Well, I think I just thought like, you know, what is like long -term, this transactional mentality isn't sustainable. Ultimately, every career is the same. Like they all come to an end. No one can be a professional athlete forever. And you know, when I looked at it at 25 years old or whatever it was, you know, again, cause I left school early, played my rookie year at 21.

Was ahead of most guys that were coming in at 23 24 So you may think about it I played three years and I signed my second contract with the Minnesota Vikings. I was 24 years old at that time Most guys that were coming in they played their senior year of college at 23 and they were 24 as a rookie So, you know having that experience having gone through those first three

And really thinking like, now it's completely different than I go back to that Adidas deal where, hey, I needed that 50K because I don't want to touch my NFL salary. I want to put that away. I want to save that. It was, I just signed a contract with a signing bonus that now sets me up for the rest of my life. It is generational money, not just headstart money, like when you think about a rookie contract in the NFL.

So was how can

Steve Feuerstein (34:13.595)
What was I hope you don't mind just for our viewers and again, I understand it's public information. What was that signing bonus?

Kyle Rudolph (34:19.303)
Yeah, I have no idea. I probably should know that it was the probably the biggest day of my life. I signed it in training camp in the dorm in Mankato. But I signed. I mean, I can hear I can look it up quickly. The the contract was a five year up to $40 million contract with the incentives and I was fortunate over the course

Steve Feuerstein (34:30.201)
A range, just come up with a ballpark range.

Steve Feuerstein (34:47.621)
and how much you might have asked on the incentive, because it's one of the most fascinating parts of deals that usually don't get published in the media, centist, because it would be on the number, if you could, start with a few, certain number of touchdowns, certain number of receptions, yards, could you define some of those fundamentals on what would be incentive?

Kyle Rudolph (35:06.566)
Yep. So for me, I had two incentives that I could earn. One was to be selected to a Pro Bowl and then the other was to have 80 receptions in a season. And I hit 80 receptions in 2016 and then I was selected to the Pro Bowl in 2017. So I was fortunate to hit both of those. Here we go. I'm pulling it

Steve Feuerstein (35:31.111)
Up to 40 million over how many years,

Kyle Rudolph (35:33.19)
Five years.

Steve Feuerstein (35:36.455)
So you have incentives of about another 500 ,000.

Kyle Rudolph (35:40.134)
Yep, so it well it was 36 and some change and then basically each one of those max it out at 40 million I hit The signing bonus was 6 .5 So five years 36 and a half was the base contract and then I had incentives for that other three and a half million You know call it one seven five for 80 catches and another whatever

for the Pro Bowl. So yeah, you think about it, $6 .5 million to sign your name on a piece of paper, that changed my life. That changed my family's life. That changed my kid's life at that point. I didn't even have kids at that time.

Steve Feuerstein (36:24.583)
Was that a guarantee by the way? Just so as we know that in your role as a pro football player, sometimes the money is all guaranteed, sometimes it's partially guaranteed. At that time of your career, where were they looking?

Kyle Rudolph (36:36.902)
Yeah, for me, so 18 .5 of the 36 .5 was guaranteed when I signed the contract. The way the signing bonus works, most of the time you get, you know, call it 6 .5 as the signing bonus. I would get a majority of that 10 days later. You know, it's direct deposit into your account. And then, so I signed that contract in August. It was during training

you would get a second installment in March of the following year. say I got 4 .5, 10 days later, another two was coming in March of the following year. So again, going to meet like how that changed then my mentality off the field. You know, I had just signed a contract on the field that took care of me for the rest of my life. You know, I knew from 24

26 years old, was gonna make, know, with the last, I still had one year left on my rookie contract, call it a million bucks. So I was gonna make just over $40 million. Ultimately, I started approaching things differently than I did when I was making 500 ,000 after taxes on that rookie contract. I started thinking of things like, okay, how does this become,

relationship. How does this become a brand partnership in which the brand looks at me and says you know what we can't lose Kyle. If here's the value that Kyle provides us this isn't just hey we're giving Kyle $25 ,000 for this our appearance to sign autographs and mingle with our sales winners or give a speech to our you

executives or leadership team. I wanted brands that I aligned with and that I associated with to go, you know what, like Kyle adds value. How do we bring him in far beyond his career as a player? And to me, I really started looking at it that way and really looking at things from a relationship standpoint as opposed to just a transaction. And quite honestly, I started doing a lot more stuff

Kyle Rudolph (39:01.001)
for free. was going to events and getting in crowds and being around decision makers that I wasn't getting paid to be there. As a 21 year old, it would have been a lot harder to convince me, hey Kyle, you need to go to this dinner and hang out at this reception and just be in this room because there's a lot of decision makers that are there that ultimately may create something that comes to fruition down the road.

I started doing a lot more of things in that nature, getting around individuals, getting around decision makers, just to understand what's important to them. What do they look for in a partnership? How can I add value? How can I curate something that when your decision makers, when your CMO or your head of partnerships goes back and says, you know what, was this partnership with Kyle Rudolph worth it? Or did we pay him $25 ,000?

are we moving on. And I wanted to create more things in which the brands were getting the value out of it as much as I was getting the value financially.

Steve Feuerstein (40:09.383)
What did you do, you're 26, 27, and you are defining your brand? Was it literally you? Did you have a team assisting you? Was it just taking out paper and you're trying to identify what salient characteristics you have? What does it mean for Kyle Rudolph to define the Kyle Rudolph brand?

Kyle Rudolph (40:29.674)
Well, to me, think I just thought about like, what are the brands that I love? You know, I spoke about Nike being something that I wore every sport, every season, every year of my life until I got to college. Well, you know, I went to the Pro Bowl my second year in the NFL in my Adidas cleats. Well, then I did get a cash offer from Nike the following year. And guess what? I took

I couldn't wait to get back in Nike. Very appreciative of my two years in Adidas, but for me, again, I grew up with it. It was so iconic to me. And to have the opportunity then going into my third year to get back into Nike, I took it. And so for me, like at that point, when I started to establish what do the brand associations look like and who do I want to be associated with, it was the brands.

You know, we're fortunate here in the Twin Cities and Minneapolis to have some iconic brands that are headquartered here in the Twin Cities. And, you know, for me, when I thought about a brand, obviously Nike is not that brand, but it was, was, you know, what are the brands that I associate with? Nike, Gatorade, US Bank. I've been a US Bank private client

since I was a rookie, my aunt worked at US Bank, the stadium here in Minneapolis is US Bank Stadium. So when I started to think about like some of these big brands that I wanted to be associated with, that I respected, that I aligned with, then it became how do you add value? How do you work with them? What do you do? And that's really how we started framing things from a marketing standpoint.

Steve Feuerstein (42:21.667)
Did, so let's go first to the Nike deal. You had commercial film coming out on television with Adidas. That's a pretty potent, potent, you know, power punch from a brand when they put you as a center point of a commercial. Nike has thousands and thousands of athletes on its books.

Was that a sacrifice or did you secure some type of visual so that your brand, your image was promoted by Nike in a way that sustained that momentum from Adidas?

Kyle Rudolph (42:55.391)
No, I mean, obviously I was at the time, you know, I think about Adidas, Adidas football, the number of guys that we had in the NFL. I was certainly going from a, you know, big fish in a small pond to a small fish in a big pond when I went over to Nike. But again, I understood that it was a sacrifice I was willing to make. And so for me, it was, you know, again, it's kind of, you

cliche to say, like, you know, getting back to my childhood, like, you know, I just couldn't wait to get back into Nike cleats and the fact that they were going to pay me cash to wear them. and by the way, give me the product as well. We talked about what the, well, now Nike boxes were showing up at the house and by the way, included in Nike is Jordan. I said I was a basketball guy and a diehard basketball. Now I can get Jordans for free. yeah, give me as many as I can possibly

Steve Feuerstein (43:51.532)
You

Kyle, are the, I have to tell you, you're like, for all the brand managers and sponsorship directors listening to this program, I mean, you kind of are the dream of any corporate decision maker who's a steward of sponsorship dollars. Did it hurt your negotiations for your agent? mean, you had an agent, correct? So did it hurt the deal in any shape, way, form?

Kyle Rudolph (43:54.9)
It was worth the sacrifice.

Kyle Rudolph (44:15.946)
Yes, yes.

Steve Feuerstein (44:20.837)
the passion you brought to the table, this unbelievable affinity that you felt, an aunt that worked at US Bank, feeling this very visceral connection to the brands, knowing that you wanted them, did it take a little wind out of the sail of the agent? Did they cut deals that were less than you feel a tougher agent, like a Scott Borass, although he's primarily baseball, but if you had Scott behind you, do you think you sacrificed a lot on the cash or was it you had these seminal deals?

that you knew you were protected for life, you felt that you know what, you could just give up a little.

Kyle Rudolph (44:56.012)
You know, I was very fortunate. So I'm represented by Athletes First. know, Brian Murphy is the president of Athletes First. He's a Notre Dame grad, Harvard law graduate. He's been my football agent, if you would. He's the one who negotiated the five contracts that I signed throughout the course of my 12 year career. They have an incredible marketing department there as well with, you

Austin Lyman and Ryan Williams. now it's like at the time I signed in 2011, December of 2010, I think there were like 14 employees at the agency. And now they have 150. It's massive how much they've grown in the last decade and a half. But for me, it was aligning with them and saying, Hey, look, like these are brands that I want to associate with. You know, obviously there, I talked about those receptions.

You know you go you're in a room with decision makers from these massive brands and you do that for free well, I'm not going to just have a brand partnership for free like there still has to be a monetary part to the contract and I was very fortunate that they are in my opinion the best in terms of you know aligning player with brand but also Maximizing what the players getting out of it then it became for

How do I take, okay, you got me this deal with US Bank, with Verizon, with Nike. Again, these are all, I'm a US Bank private client. I have a Verizon cell phone already that I'm paying for. Now I get two lines for free and you're gonna pay me some cash? Perfect, that's a no -brainer. So it became more so like, here are the brands, the big three, if you would.

call it Nike, Verizon, US Bank. Again, US Bank stadium's here. Delta's another one. Minneapolis is a huge Delta hub. I'm a Delta diamond medallion. I only fly Delta when I can. So it's like, I'm already associated with these brands. Personally, I love their product. I use their product. I fly their airline. I use their cell provider.

Kyle Rudolph (47:21.262)
So how do I then associate myself with the brand to add value? And again, getting to a point where it's not just, yeah, we give Kyle his two lines and pay him some cash and we kind of forget about it. It became like, how do we activate this relationship? Pepsi was another huge one. For me, was the Viking. If you went to

The gas station quick trip here in the Twin Cities and you bought your aquafina water It was like it had 82 on it and said Rudolph like with the Vikings So, you know to have those kinds of things. I remember the first time I saw that in a gas station or you walk into a fast food restaurant like Jets pizza that sells Pepsi and there's a cardboard cutout of me holding a Pepsi there. It's

wait a minute, like this is crazy. Like it just, was unimaginable to me as a kid. And so for me, it's like, when I think about those five brands, going back over 10 years ago now, it's like, those were the five brands that I wrote, like I want to be a part of. it's, it's how do I add value to them? How do I, I still have relationships with all of them. And it's interesting, like as we get further in this trajectory, you know, we started with that Adidas deal as a rookie.

trading card deals as I was training for the draft, and then you move throughout the course of a 12 year career, and now, I'm sitting here in my office, the signs behind me, it's a platform that I founded to raise money for non -profits. It's called Altru. And there's a huge brand component with that as well. So it's like I go back on a lot of the relationships that I built with these brands.

you know, one of the biggest ones we do, we have a partnership with nationwide. I was nominated for the Walter Peyton man of year award three times, through our partnership with nationwide, the last two years we've raised over $500 ,000 for nominees, nonprofits. And when I think about my, my trajectory as a professional athlete, but as someone who was associated with brands, understanding, know, you go

Kyle Rudolph (49:40.11)
four years ago, 2020, everything that happened in this country. These giant corporate brands made decisions that look, yes, it's important for us to have Kyle Rudolph and to have that Aquafina Vikings bottle of water with the 82 on it in our gas stations, but it's also really important for us to make a difference. And when you get into that social impact side of brands,

What I've tried to do is use my understanding, A, with the athletes or entertainers or celebrities as a former athlete, but also understanding the brands and how we add value to the brands. know, creating social ad campaigns that bring 45 million impressions over the course of a couple months. It's like, if you're a brand, not only are you getting awareness and impressions, but I just told

through nationwide, we've raised half a million dollars. Like that's a huge impact going into all 32 NFL communities for these Walter Payton Man of the Year nominees. So for me, it's like I tell people all the time, as I've transitioned, retired my last season was 2022, I delve into this all true business. And I don't feel like I work because I get to do what I love. Like I'm raising money for charity. I'm working with individuals.

You know, you see hockey here, Disney here, Orlando Magic. I get to work in sports and entertainment. I get to work with brands. I get to do everything that I kind of learned and studied throughout the course of my 12 years as a player. Now I get to apply it to Altru.

Steve Feuerstein (51:22.971)
You know, Kyle, you mentioned you work with celebrities and athletes. Do you notice anything in the punch of the two, anything distinct that you notice that, let's focus on the positive. What is it that a celebrity brings to the table that an athlete does not? And one thing that an athlete brings to the table that a celebrity does

Kyle Rudolph (51:43.982)
Well, I think one of the cool parts about Altru and our business and our platform is that, yes, we've worked with far more. If you looked at the percentage of our, call it 200 partners over the last three years and some change, probably 90 % are athletes. Football, NFL, NHL, Major League Baseball, UFC.

NBA, but it's more so it's like that's that's because that's where myself, one of our co -founders is Jason Zucker, who plays for the Buffalo Sabres. That's where our relationships are. That doesn't mean we don't have relationships outside of sport. And that's what's crossed us over into entertainment. Josh Duhamel is a partner of ours. Music, you saw Walker Hayes on there, Darius Rutger, Jelly Roll, Morgan Wallen. We've worked

countless different musicians as well. And it's because that's where our relationships are. And when I can pick up the phone and say, hey, I had this opportunity, adding value. How do I add value? I'm not calling to you to have that transactional relationship that I said I took my first three years in the NFL. We're here to serve you. We're here to raise money for either your personal foundation or any nonprofit of your choice. But the common denominator

go a little different than the question that you asked is all of which are harnessing the power of fandom. Whether you're a fan of music, whether you're a fan of television, film, whether you're a fan of sports, what we try to do is create the opportunity for your $10 donation. You can donate as little as $10 to enter a lot of these, they're sweepstakes, we call them rallies. These rallies to support

Favorite athlete entertainer celebrity for a lack of better words We're trying to engage that fandom so much of sport television entertainment music brands We don't exist without fans if we don't have if brands don't have consumers They don't have a brand if sports don't have fans. They don't have a sport Without fans we have nothing

Kyle Rudolph (54:09.908)
So what I've tried to create and my partners here at Altruist try to create is the opportunity for the diehard fans to feel like You know what my ten dollars that I donated to Max Holloway's foundation are making a difference and you know Max did a rally for an organization in Hawaii I think it was a boys and girls club in Hawaii and it's like that ten dollars may not seem like a lot but guess

a lot of $10 donations added up to a $50 ,000 donation to Max's cause in Hawaii. And by the way, a lucky fan and a guest got to go to a UFC fight and meet Max and go to the weigh -in and have this once in a lifetime opportunity. So it's really fun for me to kind of operate it over the course of our last hour on this phone call, on this interview. That's everything that I do on a daily basis

It's working with individuals, it's working with sport, television, entertainment, music, and then working with brands. And how do we get more brands involved in this opportunity to say, hey, look, for a little investment, we can get a huge return on your awareness, but then also look at the impact we can make. We can raise a half a million dollars over the course of two years for these incredible communities.

Steve Feuerstein (55:33.349)
You know, as we come to a close, I'm really interested, you you have this almost duality of your identity that sees very clearly both sides of the relationship, the brand, the corporate sponsor, as well as the fan, obviously relationship with the athlete or celebrity. When you look and you're constantly seeing promotions take place in the market,

without naming a specific brand, if you will, what irks you about how brands will go about a relationship with an athlete or a celebrity that you just feel, you know what, you really missed the mark. You missed the mark. You had an opportunity to make a significant impact, but the way you approached it, just, it's not resonating. What, is there some overarching pattern you see with your expertise that we can learn from?

Kyle Rudolph (56:22.623)
You know

Kyle Rudolph (56:26.837)
I'll give you a perfect example of, and it's kind of the perfect way to encapsulate my career early and ultimately a deal I did on the back half of my career and it's in the car space. So again, I talked about that Cadillac car deal that I had as a rookie. Yeah, for Cadillac.

I drove my Escalade around town to the facility every day, to the stadium. But when I looked at that, I looked back, what did Cadillac get out of it? Some social media posts, people aren't gonna go buy their Escalade because they saw Kyle Rudolph drives one and he posted on his social media, like, thanks Cadillac for my Escalade. I wouldn't be able to get around town without you.

yada, yada, yada. We've seen it a million times. And all they really got out of it was I would return the Escalade every 5 ,000 miles or 7 ,500 miles. like, just put 5 ,000 miles on this beautiful vehicle and decrease the value for you to now sell it. So like, what did you get out of it? And fast forward a couple of years later, there's a dealership here in the Twin Cities.

Morrie's automotive group, have probably three or four different, know, Cadillac, Ford, Lincoln, you know, they got all the different branches, all the different manufacturers. And so I started thinking to myself like, okay, these car deals, they're such a racket. Like there's no way the dealership's getting, maybe they get two season tickets from the player. Like the player gives them two season tickets in exchange for a car.

Is it really worth it? Like, they really getting something out of this deal, out of this partnership that would say, you know what, we need to do that again. So I started brainstorming on like, okay, what value can I provide to this car dealership? And again, I had relationships with Maurice prior to our partnership. So I sat down with a good buddy of mine that was an executive at the company, the CMO, and I said, okay,

Kyle Rudolph (58:47.768)
Here's a traditional car deal. Here's how it works. You give athlete car, athlete puts on social media, Maury's thanks for my car. How many people come into Maury's and buy a car because they saw the Minnesota Vikings player post on his social media? I'm going to say zero. Zero. Like if we tracked how many people actually were like, you know what? I went and bought a car because I saw Kyle Ruoc drove one. I'm willing to bet zero would be the answer to that question.

The way I phrased it was, okay, you have a luxury dealership. It's got Bentley's and Ferrari's and Maserati's. You have all these cool, high -end, exclusive cars. Here's what we're gonna do. Instead of me taking one vehicle and driving it for 5 ,000 miles, 7 ,500 miles, whatever that is, and then returning it, I'm gonna come every Friday before home games and have a car for

You pick, I don't care. I'll drive that car to work on Friday. I'll drive it to the hotel on Saturday. I'll drive it to the stadium on Sunday, and then I'll return it on Monday. And what's going to happen? I have 52 other teammates who all have the means to buy these vehicles and want to know where to go to buy them. One thing about professional athletes,

They're impulsive buyers. They're not going to be the gentleman or lady who sees me drive a Nissan Titan to a game and post it and put it on my social media and say, you know what? I've been doing my research for the last 18 months about what truck I want to buy. And know, Kyle Rudolph drove a Nissan Titan, so I'm going to go buy a Nissan Titan. No, they've already made up their mind

quarter ton pickup truck they want to go buy. My teammates, they see me drive a Ferrari 430 to the facility on Friday and they walk out to work and they're like, Rudy, where'd you get that? Like that's awesome, no, go see my guys at Moray's, they'll take care of you. Guess what? They sold five luxury vehicles that season alone to my teammates and a couple other high net worth individuals across town. And so when you think about

Kyle Rudolph (01:01:09.464)
It was my point exactly. Like, how do I help you do what ultimately your job is? Your job is to sell cars. How do I help you sell cars? Well, now I'm driving these vehicles for maybe 20 miles. You know, it's five minutes to work, five minutes home, 10 minutes to the hotel, two minutes to the stadium, 10 minutes home, back to the dealership. Like, hardly putting any miles on these cars whatsoever. And then you're turning around and you're selling

hundred, hundred and fifty, two hundred, two hundred and fifty thousand dollar vehicles to the exact market that needs to see these vehicles on a weekly basis.

Steve Feuerstein (01:01:51.313)
Kyle Rudolph, what a tour de force today. I have to tell you, just pure pleasure. And I know one thing, if Nike is listening.

global head of athlete representation, it's a shoe -in for you, no pun intended, but it is a perfect fit. What a dynamic understanding of the business of sport you have. What a selfless attitude, win -win attitude you have. And I know you defined your brand as one where you looked at what utility products you used, what utilitarian products you were engaging at the time, and what you had an affinity toward,

Probably the bigger brand identity is you as being someone who sees this world in a very unique fashion of ensuring that every party walks away winning from a relationship. And I'd say not having met you before, if I represented you, I would certainly put out in the market that the guy has a heart of gold, he's got, is as articulate as they come, but you can bank on him knowing that you're gonna get so much value from a relationship with him.

because he's thinking of every avenue and corridor as to how you're gonna get a mutually beneficial boost enhancement in the relationship from a Kyle Rudolph. So what a pleasure it was to have you on the transaction. What a pleasure it was to have you on the transaction report today.

Kyle Rudolph (01:03:17.055)
Steve, I appreciate it. I've really, really enjoyed our conversation and you hit the nail on the head there. It's been, you know, my mentality from that change in philosophy halfway through my career and, you know, really trying to create win -wins. If the individual, if the athlete is winning and the brand is winning, that's ultimately what creates something that is then repeatable. How do we create a relationship that will have

far beyond just our times as a guy who's on the field catching touchdowns on Sundays. And it's what's allowed me to have this second act of my sports business career with Altru. And now it gives me the opportunity to make a difference and continue to give back to the community, to help other individuals, to provide that win -win perspective. And I really appreciate the time today. It was a ton of fun having this conversation.

Steve Feuerstein (01:04:11.419)
And know Kyle, you downplayed the former identity you in the first few years of doing transactional deals, but it was heck of an appearance on the transaction report. So thank you very much. Okay, I think Chandler will join us. Kyle, what a pure pleasure. That

Kyle Rudolph (01:04:22.628)
Thank