Joanne Pasternack (00:01.23)
Hi, I'm Joanne Pasternak, CEO of Oliver Rose, and I'm here with you live on the Transaction Report with Steve Wierstein.

Steve Feuerstein (00:09.519)
Joanne, veteran, you've been around the block for decades, an expert in all aspects of sports management, sports marketing, social impact, social justice, athlete endorsements. I wanna start with you in whatever you determine is important to you. Look back on your career in this industry and share with our viewers, and it's difficult, but highlight if you could, just whatever comes to mind as being the most

accomplished moment in your career and why it was for you at that time.

Joanne Pasternack (00:46.382)
That's difficult. First of all, thank you for having me on. Thank you for the kind words. We can never actually be experts because we're always learning. And one of the things that I would say has been most important for me throughout my career is the fact that I've gotten to know that everybody has their own story and each athlete has a different story. When I think back to pivotal moments, however, it was watching how Steve Kerr handled a media situation that was

very challenging, that could have been incredibly challenging when the Golden State Warriors were uninvited from the White House after a controversial time in our history here. And Coach Kerr looked and said, what can we do to increase positivity and to move towards something that will showcase our commitment to equity and social justice? And it was life -changing for me.

Steve Feuerstein (01:40.079)
And what was that pivotal shift?

Joanne Pasternack (01:43.662)
Bivoult's shift was that it was possible to speak up and use your voice and not be penalized for it, that athletes could speak to what their truths were and allow that to flow in a way that was really natural towards something that was positive for the team to come together. So in this particular case, Stephane Curry made a statement at Media Day when asked if he would visit the White House after winning a championship and he said he personally wouldn't.

The next day, of course, there was a Twitter storm overnight and we discovered that we had been uninvited from the White House, so it was no longer an option. Coach Kerr wanted to do something when we were playing the Washington Wizards and he looked at it as what can we do to move positive conversation forward? So we're not going into a combative stance. Instead, we're looking at what we can do to push forward a more positive agenda.

Steve Feuerstein (02:40.783)
could you identify precisely what that again movement was that you determined to be positive?

Joanne Pasternack (02:46.894)
Yes, so we ended up deciding to go to the Smithsonian Museum of African American Culture and History and we were able to get there. As the museum was closing, we brought 100 young people from Seat Pleasant, Maryland, a community where Kevin Durant and Quinn Cook, two of the athletes on the Golden State Warriors, had grown up and went through this museum without external media, without lots of cameras and microphones and everything else.

just allowing the gathering to flow really naturally. And it turned out to be incredible because the guys on the team and these children and young adults from Seat Pleasant formed real connections and had real conversations. And we were also contextualizing it in a historically important museum that takes you from the basement and then.

slavery and the beginnings of this ethos around slavery all the way up to the seventh floor where you're celebrating the music, the culture, the influence of African Americans within our nation. And we rose with that. I mean, I think that's part of the philosophy around the museum is you come up from the darkness and into the light. And for me, that was really incredible to watch the loosening of the shoulders, the loosening of the smiles. And as we got to that top floor to watch

the athletes and the kids, dancing and having just a terrific time and forgetting who was who and who was a celebrity and who wasn't.

Steve Feuerstein (04:20.623)
So take, because a lot of the folk listening to this program are very stewards, if you will, of their sponsorship budgets and concerned about how do you align with the right athlete, the right team, the right venue, the right association and league. You mentioned that there was a hailstorm that took place after Steph's tweet, but you mentioned you went into the museum without the media.

Joanne Pasternack (04:27.662)
Mm -hmm.

Joanne Pasternack (04:38.382)
Sure.

Joanne Pasternack (04:45.134)
Mm -hmm.

Joanne Pasternack (04:50.094)
Mm -hmm.

Steve Feuerstein (04:50.287)
How did that translate into a mass market social impact moment?

Joanne Pasternack (04:57.837)
It's interesting. One of the things that I always start with is listening and asking lots of questions. So sometimes a warm person can ask you a lot of questions and they might feel somewhat personal. But what I'm trying to get at is what is at your core? What's most important to you? When we are approaching the media in this situation, we're looking at it from the perspective of how do we create a story that is compelling, but that isn't made for TV so that it's naturally unfolding in a way where

viewers, listeners, fans will take it in and realize its authenticity. So I spent nine seasons working with the San Francisco 49ers. And over that time, we tackled a lot of different issues. We had an athlete who during media day at Super Bowl made a homophobic comment and we needed to jump in and kind of talk about how we wanted to address that. We had many moments where we were talking about respect, we were talking about

engagement, we were talking about equity, and yet sometimes we had players who would do something that wasn't respectful, that wasn't reflective of the equity that we were espousing to within our corporate communications. And so it was bringing the causes together with the right advocates and then doing so in a way that was natural for a sponsor who was already speaking that same language and looking to have it amplified through the voices of athletes.

Steve Feuerstein (06:25.839)
So if you will, you mentioned again, I wanna just hone in so we can treat this as a learning moment. You mentioned there was a hail storm that took place, firestorm. How did we then redress that through the visit to the museum so that folk, the common man and woman, a boy and girl left it feeling that while they didn't attend the White House ceremony and there was discord, it turned into a very positive experience.

Joanne Pasternack (06:39.629)
Mm -hmm.

Joanne Pasternack (06:49.678)
Mm -hmm.

Steve Feuerstein (06:54.415)
for the team itself. Was there a pivotal moment in how the media perceived this and how you communicated to the media? Could you share that please?

Joanne Pasternack (07:02.062)
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, this was not a made for TV event. And that's one of the elements that made it work. I think it worked for a challenged public that was feeling a lot of discord in the White House, politically, socially, out in our communities. We were at a time when there's a lot of disagreement. So when you think about

Steve Feuerstein (07:07.151)
Precisely.

Steve Feuerstein (07:12.079)
But it worked for whom, Joanne?

Joanne Pasternack (07:30.446)
what it feels like to go around the dinner table and what are the topics that we would or would not discuss. The common teaching is you don't talk about politics, you don't talk, you know, there's certain topics that you don't discuss around the dinner table. And we were leaning into that process of saying, we're not going in to say, we disagree with politics, we disagree with this, we disagree with that. Instead, we were saying, let's find where we have commonality. Let's find where we come together and what does that look like?

So when you are thinking about the structure of a team or a league, a corporate sponsor, the individuals who are being highlighted within it, and then the causes that you're leaning into, the nonprofits, the social impact, social justice, where do those thread together so that there is a natural conversation happening, where it doesn't feel like it's making up for something you have done wrong or protecting yourself against the thing that might go wrong?

So in this case, we were saying, look, we don't feel welcomed at the White House. Even if you were to invite us, we wouldn't want to go because I don't want to go to somebody's house if they don't respect me as a human. And so instead of going into that house where I'm not respected, we're going to invite people to join us. Not that we're inviting them to a house that isn't ours, but rather that we're going to walk through this experience together.

So again, when you go through that museum and you start on the ground floor and you feel the darkness, it's really a great representation of how we feel when we start to feel that connection. So when you meet somebody, like I meet you, Steve, I don't immediately know who you are, know your values, understand what's happening. But during our first conversation, maybe your little dog pops up and I say, what a cute dog. And we start to find something and come on, I have a dog as well. Now let's take it to the next level.

What are the other things that we're going to find that we have in common? And so through those points of connectivity, we start to have authenticity in our relationship. So it isn't this transactional, like I'm here to build a park and look at the park we built and now we're going to leave. It's let's build this park together. Let's figure out whether we want two swing sets or three, whether we want a toddler area because of the neighborhood and the demographics of the neighborhood, or whether we want something for individuals who are differently abled.

Joanne Pasternack (09:53.198)
And so by talking about it, by figuring out how we're going to build that playground, we're having a conversation with the beneficiaries, with the recipients, and we're also building it together. So that's where I start. I always want to find things that we have in common.

Steve Feuerstein (10:08.047)
You know, when we look at the shift that you and I have seen over the years now, which we knew was coming to college athletes being able to be compensated for their time and effort, we see an inordinate amount of focus on their quote unquote charitable causes, their social interests, what they psychographically are compelled to be involved in. And in many ways, for many brands looking to be a part of a relationship with an athlete.

Joanne Pasternack (10:13.23)
Mm -hmm.

Joanne Pasternack (10:24.206)
Mm -hmm.

Steve Feuerstein (10:37.935)
particularly those who have yet to necessarily prove themselves on the court or on the field, very often what they're left with is this initial passion that a young man and woman has with respect to some form of giving back to community, quote unquote. Is there, in your judgment, is there a process, a way that you could recommend a process of selection?

process of how do I know that this aligns with my brand, this aligns with my decision making as a sponsor. And at the same time, I'm aligned with an athlete who genuinely has a message to bring and ultimately what we all have to demonstrate is a growing audience because we've put money behind another human being.

Joanne Pasternack (11:07.694)
Mm -hmm.

Steve Feuerstein (11:35.311)
to represent our interests to our target market. So therefore we need them to grow that base. We want them to become more popular and more influential. Is there, when you're looking at an athlete and you're diagnosing that athlete, are there any tools of the trade you've and obviously have learned over your career that you would perhaps say here's the approach I take when I open up the toolbox to look at an athlete and assess?

Joanne Pasternack (11:38.158)
Yeah.

Joanne Pasternack (11:42.446)
We do.

Joanne Pasternack (12:01.902)
Yeah.

Steve Feuerstein (12:04.719)
for good fit.

Joanne Pasternack (12:04.846)
Yeah, I mean, it's really treating them like the humans that they are. So I'm going to take you all the way back to 2008 when I first started the San Francisco 49ers. And I came in as the director of community relations. And in that role, I was tasked with creating and then executing events on, at that point, it was Tuesdays, the day off for the football players every single week. So every Tuesday, there was going to be an event during the season.

We needed to craft a calendar of events before we even knew who was on the final roster. So schedule comes out in April. You start to think through like, what are the thematic approaches to each game? What types of events do we want to do? Do we have sponsor obligations? So if you have a bank that wants to do something on financial literacy and then you have a hospital partner that wants to do a make a wish or a visit, maybe you have something related to the military and you're trying to...

integrate those into your season of giving from August until December. What we then have is we have an opportunity once the roster is set to sit down and actually talk to the guys about what means the most to them. So when I got there in 2008, the participation rate for the athletes in those voluntary community Tuesdays was quite low. It was 62 % more or less. And

We thought about what had been done in the past and why the engagement rate was so low. The guys didn't have anything else they needed to do on a Tuesday, other than maybe go out and shop for their paper towels and their toilet paper for their home or play video games. And so we wanted to create something that was compelling to them as individuals and then them collectively as a group. So what we started to do after the 2008 season was when the roster had been

So the guys who were cut are cut, the guys who were on the team are on the team, we know who they are. We divided up the team by groups of maybe five or 10 athletes who resonated or maybe had more in common with people on my team, the community relations team. And then we sat down and we actually asked them, what were some of the things that influenced you when you were young? What were some of the resources that you leveraged? What were pivotal moments that really changed the way that you looked at the world?

Joanne Pasternack (14:29.966)
how important was a particular individual in your growing up experience? So through that, you might find out that a guy spent his afternoons with the boys and girls club in his neighborhood, that he was raised by his grandmother and his father, that he was the oldest of seven siblings, and that one of his siblings had Down syndrome and another one had diabetes. So now all of a sudden we have some information. What are we gonna do with that information? Now if we layer that over,

onto the calendar of events that we had to prepare not knowing the individuals we'd have on the team, it becomes really easy to start to think about, well, so this guy has a sibling with Down syndrome, perhaps they'd be interested in participating in our Special Olympics event we're doing. Perhaps they'd be interested in leaning into Juvenile Diabetes Awareness Month. Perhaps they want to appreciate their grandmother and grandmothers who have been in lives of young people on Mother's Day.

you start to do this matchmaking process where you're listening and then you're aligning. And one of the elements that is so important is allowing people to introduce themselves the way that they want to be sharing about themselves. So we tend to walk up to people and say, hi Steve. So man, you look like you're about this age. You're thinking all these things in your head. He wears glasses. He has this, he has that. I think I know lots of things about him. So I'm going to assume he wants to do this event.

But I haven't asked you, because it might be that because your sibling was diagnosed with juvenile diabetes and it was incredibly traumatic for you as a young person, that you don't want to be in that place or space. And so it's really about asking those questions. And you can see it in somebody's eyes when they light up that they've, you've hit on something that they really care about. I mean, I know I'm that way. If you mentioned something, I'm like, that's something I really care about. Like we get to talk.

Your shoulders tend to like bounce around a little more, your smile is more natural, and that's part of what we look for when we're talking to athletes. And you can do that in not five minutes, but give it 15 minutes and get to know somebody first.

Steve Feuerstein (16:44.943)
And that is, is it the only way it will work with the, with making these relationships with athletes really meaningful for both the athlete and the brand? In your opinion, is it, is it most of the time essential to have that diagnostic, that kind of real life? This is how I grew up. I can, I can, I, I guess where I'm going with this is can one evolve into a passion?

without having to have had experience behind that passion.

Joanne Pasternack (17:18.03)
Absolutely. You can have empathy. I think empathy is one of the strongest characteristics that helps us to feel aligned with somebody, even if we haven't experienced what they've experienced. I also...

Steve Feuerstein (17:30.383)
So can you fit someone, Joanne? If you have a desire to work with a particular athlete, can you mold an athlete into an empathetic position towards a particular cause that aligns with your brand's particular principles and ethos? Can you be that sculpted in, and again, sculpted in a way, not in any Machiavellian way, but in a way that truly gets a particular persona who's an influencer, who's a meaningful personality,

Joanne Pasternack (17:46.638)
Steve Feuerstein (18:00.431)
to believe in what you believe is important. And therefore, because you've educated them, because they are empathetic in their essence, you've got them to support a cause without having to have had, quote unquote, the direct firsthand experience.

Joanne Pasternack (18:08.526)
Mm -hmm.

Joanne Pasternack (18:16.334)
that's where storytelling comes in. So it's, and its specificity around that. So one of the things that I'll find is that sometimes I need to overshare in order to help someone else feel more comfortable sharing themselves. So if, for example, I were to say, you know, I'm the oldest of three kids and I'm very close to my sister because of this thing that she went through, how are you in a relationship with your siblings? Like,

What are some of the elements that are important to you? You're also an oldest. What does that mean to you? So asking questions that are open -ended, but yet that are revelatory about you as well. So I kind of look at it like I'm asking you to peel back your layers. I need to peel back some of mine in order for us to have this sense of camaraderie. Otherwise it sounds like it's an interview. You know, if I just looked at you and I said, Steve, tell me about yourself. How many siblings do you have? Where did you grow up?

What was your favorite sport? You're telling me all this, but it's almost like being in a psychologist's office. You know, it's sitting there and saying like, I'm, I feel like I'm paying somebody to ask me lots of questions and then to diagnose me. Instead, when it becomes more conversational, like I'm the oldest, where do you fall in the birth order? Now we start to have an actual conversation. And when we feel those points of connectivity, then we start to feel a relationship forming. Through that, you can develop empathy or you can develop an interest.

in a cause because you're helping the individual to feel something about an element that they may have never even considered. So it might be that you've never visited a hospital, you've never had a close encounter with a life -threatening or life -limiting illness for somebody, a loved one in your family, but I can talk to you about how this young man is the biggest 49ers fan ever and how during the playoffs he was in his hospital bed wearing all his Niners gear and

when you scored a touchdown, you made him feel that sense of joy again, that raised his endorphin level and helped him to feel better even for that moment. And he wants you to come visit him, Steve. So let's go do that. Let's bring him something. Let's show him that it isn't a one -way fandom, that you're a fan of his and that you're helping him to feel something, but he's also helping you to recognize that it isn't just a play on the field, that it's something that can lift his spirit.

Joanne Pasternack (20:42.734)
And so now I'm appealing to you as a human and saying, you created this moment for a young man who's in the hospital. Now let's go and bring something to him. And now the guy feels like he's not invading this young man's space. And he's also not self aggrandizing. He's not like, look at me, I'm a superstar. I'm coming into your hospital room. They're giving each other that mutual lift. So that's part of it. And I think.

Steve Feuerstein (20:50.223)
Mmm.

Joanne Pasternack (21:11.246)
When we look at philanthropy as being one way, we forget that it has to feel good for both parties.

Steve Feuerstein (21:21.167)
When does it usually not feel good? What's an example where it doesn't feel good for two parties?

Joanne Pasternack (21:25.71)
So, another thing, when I first got to the diners, they had these t -shirts they would wear on the Community Tuesdays that said, give thanks, that the players did. And I hated those shirts. I hated those shirts because to me, it felt like I'm walking in, I'm saying, my shirt is literally saying, give thanks, give thanks to me. Aren't I amazing? I'm showing up, I'm here to do stuff for you because I don't know anything about you.

Steve Feuerstein (21:36.078)
Okay.

Joanne Pasternack (21:55.246)
but I've already decided that you're weaker than me, you're more needy than me, that we have nothing in common. I'm differentiating myself because I'm a famous athlete and you are a person in a homeless shelter or you are a person in a hospital. So give thanks to me. And I just immediately was like, it just, it doesn't work for me. I need it to be more of a give and take. So, so it wouldn't feel good when you walk in not knowing anything about the place you're about to do service.

and you are putting yourself on a plane that's higher than. So how we changed that up was when we would do an event, say at a shelter, we might be serving food at the beginning, but then I would say to all the guys, now take a plate of food and go find a seat at a table. And I want you to find three things that you have in common with people at that table. And that was the profound moment because now you're not serving people to homeless shelter.

and then going out to your fancy SUV, driving away and feeling really like, okay, well I did something great, but it didn't stick with me. What stuck with them was the fact that none of us are all that different from each other, even though one might be currently unhoused and another one is playing in the NFL. If we can find three things that we have in common, now all of a sudden we're like, okay, we're more similar than we're different. And it becomes less about giving thanks and more about being thankful that we're together.

Steve Feuerstein (23:24.751)
You know, you said something so interesting, which reminded me of an article I read in the last few days. And it was about Kristin Cook, who is the chief agency sales and kind of marketing officer, I believe, at State Farm. And she had commented in one of the interviews she did, she actually said they were looking for a new brand partner. And Caitlin Clark was interviewed. And

It was really, you know, when it sounds the way we are talking right now to people who may not be in the industry, it might sound in some ways very poetic. It might sound almost utopian in many ways, but in literal terms, when you look at the experience that State Farm, who's one of Caitlin Clark's 12 sponsors, you know, our good friend Caitlin and

Joanne Pasternack (24:03.95)
Mm -hmm.

Sure.

Steve Feuerstein (24:19.215)
endorsed 12 different brands right before she turned pro over those prior two years. And Kristin Cook actually said that she heard an interview with Clark and that she said in the interview last year that she wanted to make the state of Iowa proud, that she wanted to bring quote unquote people joy, and that she wants every young boy and every young girl

Joanne Pasternack (24:22.638)
Mm -hmm.

Joanne Pasternack (24:43.31)
Mm -hmm.

Steve Feuerstein (24:48.463)
to look up and say, I can do that, I can accomplish that, I can dream big. And actually Cook, the steward, the custodian at State Farm of sponsorship, literally said that at that time she knew, she had the epiphany that Clark was the right fit and vice versa for State Farm. And they reached out to the family and they literally traveled to Iowa and they sat down and had a meeting with her.

Joanne Pasternack (24:55.758)
Mm -hmm.

Joanne Pasternack (25:15.31)
Thank you.

Steve Feuerstein (25:17.839)
to talk about quote unquote common values and common goals. And they said at that point a multi -year deal between State Farm, and it was the first by the way, nil deal they had done with a woman athlete. And it was really quite remarkable. It was announced last October. And it's almost exactly as you're describing it, that this reality that when brands really look to get aligned with athletes, there is this true,

Joanne Pasternack (25:34.478)
Mm -hmm.

Steve Feuerstein (25:48.623)
How do I, in some ways, personify the brand? What's my storytelling? What's my narrative? And this alignment with that athlete has to really come together in this very personal, I think the word you described, empathetic, very just mutually natural, seamless way. And as we speak of Caitlin Clark, I wanna, to me, and again, you've been in so many different sports fields.

Joanne Pasternack (25:52.846)
Yeah.

Joanne Pasternack (25:56.973)
Yes.

Joanne Pasternack (26:07.15)
Right.

Steve Feuerstein (26:16.431)
and obviously with the Special Olympics as well, and your father having been the head of the Special Olympics for many years, when you look, and that's of course Bruce Pasternak, when you look at what you've achieved, I wanna just hone in for a moment on what I think are two of some of the most interesting moments in sports marketing history. And it comes from the unorthodox way about Caitlin Clark. And it happens to be,

Joanne Pasternack (26:39.438)
Mm -hmm.

Steve Feuerstein (26:45.871)
her being one of them happens to be with being left off of the US national team. And now she's a, you know, a fill in a standby athlete to it. So the first thing is, you know, some of the folk, some of the individuals in my company were talking about, should she be on the team? Should she not be on the team? And my only question to them was name one stakeholder, a group that wants her off the team, besides the opposing teammate, you know, the opposing teams.

Joanne Pasternack (27:09.998)
Mm -hmm.

Sure, sure, in a different country, right? Yeah.

Steve Feuerstein (27:15.247)
I haven't thought about it until now, but besides the opposing teams that will be competing against her. And I said to them, think about it. There's only one person who wants her perhaps not on the team. And it's the player that would be on the team because she's not on the team. So let's see if we could, let's just do a little roll up the sleeves and talk, if you will, about maybe we could go just one to one in a very complimentary way. Who gains?

from Caitlin being on the US national team, as we talk about athlete alliance, and why did they gain? Where did they gain? I'll yield to you on the first one of who you think comes in big if she's on that team.

Joanne Pasternack (27:52.558)
Sure.

Joanne Pasternack (27:57.39)
Well, I mean, let's go back to State Farm for a second. So if you watch TV or listen to the radio at all, you know that like a good neighbor, State Farm is there, right? It's a tagline that really resonates, that rolls off the tongue really well. What's more neighborly than Iowa, than the Midwest, than where Caitlin played her collegiate basketball? And what's more connective than State Farm, which like a good neighbor is there?

Caitlin, who is trying to make a state in the Midwest that is all about family and traditional values and camaraderie and all of that come together. And then now we're talking about the fact that Caitlin is reflecting the ethos of State Farm. We put Caitlin onto the national team. It is such a terrific representation of the utopia that we would like to have.

in the United States that were coming together, that like good neighbors, were working together. We're not complaining about how somebody's grass is overgrown. We're going over and helping them to cut it. And I think that's what we all wish we could go back to in some way was what does it look like in the 1950s when neighbors helped neighbors? We also know that the 1950s were a tumultuous time where civil rights were completely out of whack, where we had people who were

Combative against their neighbors because their neighbor didn't look like them and then they would move they'd flee from the cities Because they didn't want to live next door to somebody like that. So who benefits well State farm obviously because now they're saying Like like good neighbor here. We are we're as a team coming in together Caitlin represents that we as a country benefit because we have somebody who is

saying she not only wants to make her family proud or she wants to make herself proud or her teammates proud, she's extending it to say, I want to make an entire state feel celebratory and proud. And so we can extrapolate from that. Let's make an entire country feel the way that you feel when you watched, when you watched Caitlin play basketball with such a joy and such talent and the way that she would.

Joanne Pasternack (30:19.854)
hug her teammates, high five. Like it was just, there's something that was so magnetic about her collegiate playing that to me would truly embody the Olympic spirit and that connectivity to a state and a place and a concept of neighborliness.

Steve Feuerstein (30:40.623)
Excellent. I'm going to throw one or two your way as well. The broadcaster, when you're looking at NBC and it's streaming on Peacock, when you have someone of that nature, regardless of how much time she gets to play, certainly the broadcaster, the advertisers, you mentioned all her sponsors, think about what happens on the merchandising side. And then to me, the biggest of them all, and there are a few others, obviously her team, it would be great from her.

Joanne Pasternack (30:43.086)
Yeah

Mm -hmm.

Joanne Pasternack (31:01.198)
Mm -hmm.

Steve Feuerstein (31:07.855)
Indianapolis, Indiana's standpoint in the fever to see her on the big stage globally. But they are a franchise of 12 among the WNBA and the Big W in my opinion, when you look at the just exponential growth that's taken place in the last four months as a result of her ascendance and others, freshmen class members who have outstanding playing talent. The bottom line is

the numbers incrementally just on the WNBA side have been so dramatic, unprecedented. You're talking about four or 500 % increases in viewership as a result of her particular team, the Fever playing while she's on it. So I think the WNBA is a quote unquote, perhaps now the darling of women's sports today. Obviously women's soccer I think had the lion's share of the focal point, but I do think for the moment,

Joanne Pasternack (32:06.894)
Women's team sport, I guess.

Steve Feuerstein (32:07.215)
The limelight, yeah, right now at this moment in time, you know, the focal point in the amount of press that she's gleaning. So from the continued descendants of the WNBA, and what I found fascinating, I'll just share a few, which I did not know as of yesterday, I learned it coming to this meeting with you, discussion with you, and that is that when you look at the rise in merchandise sales for the WNBA, the broadcasting numbers throughout the league itself, not just for her team.

when you look at her own numbers, her own Instagram following, her TikTok following, her Twitter following or ex following. And what's so fascinating to me is the number of men that she has on some of those platforms that dominate. And if it's not, by the way, dominant, it may be that women represent maybe five, 7 % greater numbers for Caitlin than men, which is not so, it's a deviation, but not one that to be concerned about if you're looking for

equal distribution, male, female, in your marketing penetration. So I guess when you look at it, the money that is on the table, literally from every angle, all her other sponsors, the 11 others outside of State Farm, it seemed like a no -brainer that this would be a perfect fit to help the game, the team succeed. But Jen Risotto, the head of Team USA Basketball,

Joanne Pasternack (33:06.99)
Sure.

Joanne Pasternack (33:12.846)
Mm -hmm.

Joanne Pasternack (33:31.214)
Mm -hmm.

Steve Feuerstein (33:34.575)
from the Chicago Sun, I believe, had said that no go. We were only given the criteria to find A, who's the best basketball player, and two, who knows the system of Coach Cheryl Leaves, who's going to be able to make the game work based on her system, and three, who's played together with these other teammates. Do you believe that was the right... If you were the decision maker and the sole one, would you have come up with that decision?

Joanne Pasternack (33:54.894)
Yes

Joanne Pasternack (34:00.814)
Mm -hmm.

Steve Feuerstein (34:04.527)
in the same form or would there be an alternative decision?

Joanne Pasternack (34:05.262)
Well, I mean, the question is, do we want the best players who will make up the best team? This really gets to the root of Olympism. It's what is the purpose of the Olympics? What is our ultimate goal at the Olympics? Do we want, remember way back when, was that 1996 or something, when we had the dream team and the pushback was...

this might be the best team that was ever assembled for the Olympics in terms of basketball. But is there a lack of equity among the teams? Is this really in the spirit of Olympism? Do we want amateurs? Do we want professionals? What do we want the team to look like? So given the criteria that you're sharing right now, it feels more like it's a constructed

team that is thinking about the collateral benefits that come from increasing exposure and awareness around women's basketball and this particular team, as opposed to are we trying to field the best team? Now, Caitlin might be the best person to round out a team and help them to win, but she might not be needed to help them win. There might be somebody else who can step into that space.

One of the critiques of the Olympics is that it has been overly commercialized and that it is no longer about who is the best athlete in certain circumstances, but who is the athlete that best fits the mold of what we're looking for in an Olympic athlete. So then we start doing a little bit of like,

Are we moving things around to suit our commercial needs in order to generate revenue for media? Or are we looking at the pure nature of sports in general and saying, what does it look like when we have the best team on the court?

Steve Feuerstein (36:10.415)
So your point is so awesome. I love your point, which is when we were raised, when we were brought up in America, it was all amateurism. It wasn't let's get the best players on the team because they were on the pro court. So at the end of the day, you did not field the best players in the world. You fielded the best amateur players in the world from your country. So please. Yeah.

Joanne Pasternack (36:18.798)
Yeah.

Joanne Pasternack (36:22.926)
Mm -hmm.

Joanne Pasternack (36:28.11)
Yes.

Well, but let's take a step back in that because, so I grew up, I was a competitive figure skater growing up and I just turned 50. I have not skated in a while, but back in my day when people were looking towards the Olympics in individual sport like figure skating, we were at an extreme disadvantage in the U .S. because we were so committed to the adherence to the amateurism that as a figure skater, my parents were

paying out of their own pocket. They were finding ways to make it possible for me to do my sport. It was a, it's a very expensive sport. In other countries, there was a different philosophy. If you showed talent as a youngster, you might be moved at seven, eight years old to go live in a training center, live with a coach. And your life was being built around your athleticism.

Steve Feuerstein (37:12.723)
Hehehehe

Steve Feuerstein (37:20.079)
into an academy of the country, yeah.

Joanne Pasternack (37:31.342)
So although you were technically an amateur, your economic investment into your sport was so dramatically different than it would be as an amateur in the US that ultimately there was a disadvantage. And so one of the things that, one of the reasons why I think the Olympic movement went away from pure amateurism was because how do you define pure amateurism? Like, does it mean that you are somehow, you're not earning money, but you're also like, I wasn't even allowed to

coach in the little snowflake classes and get paid for that when I was growing up as a skater because that would have compromised my amateur status. Right. So how am I without parents who could dig into their pockets and pay for me to do the sport? How am I accessing that sport? And what does it look like? And so when we think about the evolution over into the world of NIL and what that's meant for college athletes and

Steve Feuerstein (38:09.327)
amateur status.

Joanne Pasternack (38:27.79)
does it level the playing field? Does it allow more people to participate because they are not concerned about how they're going to make money for their family? So if you're a five -star recruit and you go into college as a five -star recruit and two years in, you have an opportunity to leave college to go play professionally, you will make a decision based off of what your family needs are.

which monetary needs are. And we had a guy at the Niners who, when he was drafted, said, the reason I left college is because my mother is sick and I need to make sure that she gets the treatment that is required to save her life. And I know I can do that by leaving college and going into the draft. So are we asking the Olympic movement to flex away from what its original intent was, which was coming together in the spirit of the Olympics to

find our commonality and compete around sports. Are we asking them to step aside and say what's best for the furtherance of the monetization of sports so that we can invest in future athletes? So WNBA, athletes who are paid coming to the Olympics, increasing merchandising sales, increasing visibility, it will lead to more opportunities for girls in

under -resourced communities to be able to play basketball. Like, that is a truth. The more visibility, the more money, the more it's possible to invest back into a community. But it's not a requirement. It's still, like I said, why did the guy show up for our Tuesday community events when it was an optional team activity? You didn't have to go.

Steve Feuerstein (40:20.783)
So my question to you again is, you're the sole decision maker on USA Olympic Women's National Basketball for the United States of America, and you've got 12 players to bring on your squad, and Caitlin Clark is one of them you're considering. Is she on that squad or not?

Joanne Pasternack (40:29.358)
Mm -hmm.

Joanne Pasternack (40:38.573)
It's not that simple of an answer. I don't see it as simple. I see it as if we're... Yeah.

Steve Feuerstein (40:40.527)
So you don't see it as.

Steve Feuerstein (40:47.695)
Where, where, let me, where is the deficiency in a woman like Caitlin Clark from being on the team? What is the one reason outside of the fact that it's her first year? And, and of course there have been some suggestions that her physical prowess, her physical being is not up to what it takes to be on the global stage. I would poo poo that she's one of the leaders in the WNBA. But when you look at the stakeholder game, when you look at the game to the game, when you look at the game to the team.

Joanne Pasternack (40:59.502)
Mm -hmm.

Joanne Pasternack (41:05.998)
Mm -hmm.

Steve Feuerstein (41:17.935)
I'm trying to see from your perspective, and I truly wanna understand your perspective. Why wouldn't it be in many ways a black and white issue for you that yes, she is a leader at this early stage in WNBA statistically. She's up there in the top, top, top echelon. She was the greatest scorer in the history of the NCAA men's and women's basketball. She just won yesterday the Honda Cup Award, again, second year in a row for the number one college athlete in the country.

She is a crowd pleaser. She is an exciting dynamic player. Shaq, Charles Barkley, some of the greats, Kevin Garnett, have all said she should be on the team. The woman should be on the team. What is it that you see that you feel is in some ways justifying her not being on that squad?

Joanne Pasternack (42:08.078)
I'm not a basketball coach. I'm not the head coach. I'm not the one who's in the locker room, on the practice court, watching the dynamics. I mean, there's so much that happens behind the scenes that none of us will ever know, nor should we know. I mean, it's, what's that expression? I hate this expression, but I'm saying anyway, how the sausage is being made. You know, it's really that there is so much behind the scenes that's happening that...

Steve Feuerstein (42:35.119)
Yeah.

Joanne Pasternack (42:35.758)
it is possible that the dynamics of the team would be impacted. I don't know that. So for me to be... Well...

Steve Feuerstein (42:43.887)
You're a good arbitrator, Joanne, I think for any mediation we need around any sensitive issue. I mean, listen, I've heard it said that way, but not the way you've said it. And I think you've taken a very diplomatic approach to what is a sensitive issue. But again, as we just spoke about and you spoke about, from every stakeholder's viewpoint, there's only to gain. And with 12 players playing on that team having won nine

Joanne Pasternack (42:55.054)
Mm -hmm.

Joanne Pasternack (42:59.758)
Yeah.

Joanne Pasternack (43:11.758)
Mm -hmm.

Steve Feuerstein (43:13.231)
consecutive championships, the most dominant team perhaps in Olympic history. It seems like her presence certainly is going to put them into a position to be in a vulnerable position they might lose. And what we on the transaction report find so compelling is the idea that one, as you have spent, look, you're the founder of Athlete Voices at Harvard. You are so focused on

Joanne Pasternack (43:18.478)
No win. I mean, that's the thing.

Joanne Pasternack (43:29.23)
Mm -hmm.

Joanne Pasternack (43:39.214)
Okay.

Steve Feuerstein (43:43.567)
on athletes, particularly those who have had a career and now it's what do I do post -career to continue to have a voice that resonates meaningfully. And what I think after being in this field for 35 years is that I realized until, and frankly, I had that sense with Tiger, I had that sense with Michael Jordan, I think I really feel it viscerally in a very different way with Caitlin Clark, that one solitary human being

has the ability to change the metrics, change the facts on the ground in such a way that all of a sudden fans are coming out of the woodwork, superstars who've said, I've never watched the WNBA until Clark got involved and she's dynamic, electric, everything I want to see in the game. And when I heard about that, I'm not concerned about her performance. I'm concerned about that one singular entity, one person, one human being.

Joanne Pasternack (44:18.958)
Perhaps, I hope, I hope.

Steve Feuerstein (44:41.679)
because of who she is and the way she's evolved as an individual, can literally, to the tune of hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars of consequence in the real world. And I say to myself, it seems so obvious that as I said, the only stakeholder who would not want her in would be the player stakeholder category. And it's one player perhaps, and that's the one who's not on the squad.

Joanne Pasternack (44:52.75)
Mm -hmm.

Joanne Pasternack (45:07.566)
I don't fully agree. It's a team sport. It's a team sport. And so the dynamics of a team are based upon how the interactions on the court or on the field, the pitch, whatever, the ice. Any team sport is about not just can you pass the puck, but the person you pass the puck to, can they score? And

is the same person, you know, you see this in youth sports, the ball hogs, right? It's the kid who always takes it for themselves and doesn't pass the ball like once to get the glory. In the short term, the team performs well. If for some reason that superstar twists an ankle and needs to sit out, does the team fall apart? Can the team dynamics still exist without that one individual? In individual sports, the one I grew up in, it was completely different.

Steve Feuerstein (46:03.727)
Mm -hmm.

Joanne Pasternack (46:04.654)
My performance was 100 % dependent on me. That's it. I mean, my coach would coach me, my mentor, all that stuff. Of course I had a whole team around me, but ultimately when my blades hit the ice, it was up to me to do the things that I knew how to do and do them well. With.

Steve Feuerstein (46:08.623)
You.

Steve Feuerstein (46:24.815)
By the way, there's your next book when the blades hit the ice

Joanne Pasternack (46:28.046)
When the blades hit the ice, right? yeah, the sharp blades. but it's, it's very different in team sports. And so again, if we're imagine coaching, imagine coaching a team. Like you're brought in to be the head coach of a basketball team and you have no say over who's going to be on that team. And you are handed a superstar. This is does not apply to Kaitlin specifically. This is just any random superstar.

Steve Feuerstein (46:38.351)
I hear

Joanne Pasternack (46:56.878)
You're handed a superstar who isn't yet a team player or isn't or was a team player and has no longer, you know, is no longer feeling that passion towards being a part of the team. We see this in the NFL sometimes where a team becomes so dependent upon that one person, or they focus so much energy around that one person that the rest of the team becomes resentful. I say this all the time and you know, Steve, you know me well, and you know that I...

quote my father often, but one of the things that he taught me a long time ago was that there was a very close relationship between admiration and envy. And when you go from admiration to envy, the next, the inevitable next step is resentment. And so when constructing a team, you want to look at the ways that you can celebrate the individuals, but also celebrate the collective impact of the team.

And anything you're doing to upset that could potentially be really damaging to the product you're putting out on the quarter of the field.

Steve Feuerstein (48:04.111)
Point taken. You look at Brittany Greiner from the Phoenix Mercury. You look at Brianna Stewart from the New York Liberty. Obviously, Tarassi from the Phoenix Mercury. You have some megastars who have Wilson from the Aces in Las Vegas. It's a star -studded team, average age, I believe. I don't believe anyone's under the age of 26, if I read that correctly. So you make a good point. I want to shift into just this last, I mean, we have much to talk about in the future.

Joanne Pasternack (48:24.174)
Yeah.

Steve Feuerstein (48:33.519)
part of our discussion on athlete and social impact, on the consequence of what one athlete can bring in sport when that athlete has truly excelled at a level that it is a kind of generational experience. It's a phenomenon. When you look at the business relationships you've had with athletes and when you have seen in your own observation of other athletes and how they've succeeded in their

Joanne Pasternack (48:37.358)
Mm -hmm.

Steve Feuerstein (49:03.311)
careers, very often there's a direct correlation between an athlete's performance and particular pressure on an agent to go out and secure endorsement deals for that athlete and get sponsors in different sponsorship categories so that athlete will make additional monies. And to be frank, that's usually where an agent makes a higher percentage on the transactions. Obviously in today's world, in many sports, they're relegated to a fixed percentage, a very low percentage, whereas in the old days it was

Joanne Pasternack (49:04.11)
Mm -hmm.

Joanne Pasternack (49:14.062)
Yes.

Joanne Pasternack (49:19.182)
Mm -hmm.

Steve Feuerstein (49:32.143)
It was pretty unbridled and you could really get a serious markup on a contract deal you were doing with the team. So is there a tipping point? An area I spent a lot of time in and have spent an inordinate amount of time on the analytic side thinking about and evaluating from a data science standpoint is can an athlete first and foremost

Joanne Pasternack (49:33.838)
Yeah.

Steve Feuerstein (49:59.247)
be oversubscribed. So if we could first just have a quick conversation and just get your quick take on, is there such thing as oversubscription for an athlete?

Joanne Pasternack (50:00.91)
Mm -hmm. No, absolutely. Yeah, yeah.

Well...

Yes, yes there is, absolutely. When you stop believing in the authenticity of the connection that they have to a particular product, because they've championed so many products, that you get to this place where you're like, I don't actually believe that this person is excited about the product that they are aligned to.

Steve Feuerstein (50:12.271)
Could you define, can you define what that over description looks like?

Steve Feuerstein (50:34.255)
But you can have that without the numbers. You could have three or four endorsement deals and not necessarily believe in the brands you're putting your name behind, but they were very rich deals. So for you, is oversubscription a quantitative issue or is it quantitative and qualitative? Or can it also be qualitative? You didn't believe in it. And even though you had three deals, you were still oversubscribed because you didn't fit it because you didn't believe in it.

Joanne Pasternack (50:41.39)
Mm -hmm.

Joanne Pasternack (50:44.846)
Yeah.

Joanne Pasternack (50:51.534)
Yes.

Joanne Pasternack (51:01.454)
Yeah, I think it can be quantitative and qualitative. But it's kind of like trust. So the expression, it takes a lifetime to build trust, but it takes a moment to lose it. So you could have authentic corporate partnership deals for decades. And then you have one where you step in and it is found to be completely inauthentic. And it might negate the impact that you had with

all of the deals you had before because now people are looking at it differently and saying, well, did Steve just do that for the money? And did Steve do all of those deals for the money? And then Steve comes forward and says, no, no, no, no, this one was different. I did this one because the money was really good. Well, how do we know how you define really good? So an example would be, I teach a class at Georgetown in corporate social responsibility and sport.

And I always start off the semester by showing a couple of different examples of athlete engagement and sponsorships. And I ask my students to rate them on their authenticity. And one of the commercials that I love, it's hysterical, it's ridiculous. It's from many, many, many years ago, but it is Joe Montana, one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time. And he is showcasing a brand of sneakers called Skechers that my

My daughter wore when she was three years old. Like these are not your like hardcore athlete sneakers. They are wonderful shoes and they serve a purpose. But in this commercial, Joe is touting this shoe and acting as though it is what makes him a superstar. And there's so much that goes into that where you're like, is that really true? Are those really the sneakers he's wearing when he's out and about playing? Probably not.

So now we start to think to ourselves, well, how much did they pay him to get him to say these were good sneakers? And if we keep building that out, now we're like, well, how much was he paid to say that State Farm was the best insurance company? And how much was he paid to say that this is the best energy drink? We start to think that he's doing what he's being paid to do or saying what he's being paid to say. And instead of,

Joanne Pasternack (53:20.75)
commercials that I love are the ones where somebody says, look, I have, I'm going to go back to diabetes again, I've type two diabetes and I am taking this prescription medication and it has lowered my heart disease risks. Like my lived experience, my family experienced a house fire and State Farm was there for us and helped us to rebuild our home. So the more that we can lean in and not just have an athlete, like maybe, maybe the reason why Joe loves his Skechers.

is because his son was really into the color purple and it made his son happy and the only way he could get his son to smile was because he wore purple skechers and they were the only ones who made men's shoes in purple at the time. Terrific. Ridiculous example. Obviously fake. But now because I know that I'm no longer questioning the authenticity of whether Joe wears those sneakers. I understand why he wears them and I believe him and even though he might not be trying to convince me

that they're the best sneakers for all circumstances. In this one circumstance, they turned out to be the best sneakers for him. And now there's believability. So that's what we look to do within Athlete's Voices and within Oliver Rose is it's, let's get to the root of it. Why are you feeling in alignment with this product? And what is it that the product is doing to create movement and momentum around something you care about?

whether it's making your son smile because you have purple shoes on, or whether it's gifting a pair of shoes to every young person who doesn't have shoes with a purchase. So, yeah.

Steve Feuerstein (54:59.631)
Final query, appreciated that. And on top of that, from Joe Montana, let me go back to Caitlin Clark, because I think it's very, very related. To your point, when they don't believe in it, even one deal can look really off kilter and it can affect everything else they're doing in their credibility. Let's go back to Caitlin Clark. She's got literally Wilson sports. She's got Nike. And see if I can remember, let me see if I can remember these. Xfinity.

Joanne Pasternack (55:15.246)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Okay.

Mm -hmm. Yeah, she has what, 11 or 12 different deals right now? Okay. Yeah.

Steve Feuerstein (55:29.455)
She's got State Farm. She's got Hy -Vee. She's got Tops, the card, trading card company. She's got Bose. She's got Buick. She's got H &R Block. She's got Gainsbridge Insurance. No, not insurance. Actually, it might be Insurance Gainsbridge, I believe. She's got Goldman Sachs. And the final of the 12, I did remember them, is actually Gatorade. I just watched five of her commercial spots.

Four of them, she didn't speak within them except three words in two of them. And most of them were just dribbling a basketball. Let's give her the benefit of the doubt. And she believes in every single one of those 12 brands. And sometimes I find it difficult to believe that someone in their early 20s may have had this experiential moment with an insurance company or with a car company, Buick, or with Bose I could see. But there are a lot of brands in there that I would

Joanne Pasternack (56:19.758)
In short.

Joanne Pasternack (56:24.238)
Mm -hmm.

Steve Feuerstein (56:27.759)
But I would have a hard time understanding the very personal experience. So I want to go back with this final voice from you. Can you be oversubscribed even when you believe in every brand? And if the answer is yes, can you try to put your finger to the best of your ability on what point at what juncture? If you're considering to be the 13th brand that Joanne might have said,

Joanne Pasternack (56:31.438)
Mm -hmm.

Joanne Pasternack (56:35.534)
Mm -hmm.

Joanne Pasternack (56:54.766)
Mm -hmm.

Steve Feuerstein (56:56.495)
I'm concerned about you coming in as number 13 with a lot of super brands spending a lot of money and you're gonna have to ratchet up your activation span. And therefore, is it a 13? Is it a 10? Is it an eight? Is it a six? Do you have in your mind the perspective of that over subscription and summary? And again, is there a point that over subscription in your mind takes place?

Joanne Pasternack (57:01.166)
Yeah.

Joanne Pasternack (57:13.294)
Yes.

Joanne Pasternack (57:19.374)
So I'll tell you the exercise I do with a lot of the athletes I work with. I say, let's pretend that you're an avatar. Like you're just sketch out literally drawing a piece of paper. Here I am. Now think about everything you do from the moment you wake up until the next day when you wake up again. what are the products you're using? What are the activities you're engaging in with the conversations you're having? Now, if we have a lot of overlap there, it doesn't mean that I'm

not open to using Colgate and Crest toothpaste, I might be open to both. But if I'm starting to share too many brands that are where my avatar is confused and holding a toothbrush in each hand and saying these are these are both the best toothpaste, does it does it undermine the authenticity and does it start to create confusion among the people who are are watching you celebrate or showcase different brands? So

Steve Feuerstein (58:17.775)
So assuming there's industry exclusivity in those 12 that she has, in your opinion, is that a prospect for oversubscription?

Joanne Pasternack (58:27.406)
Yes, it is because how many categories can you actually be exclusive to and at what point does this poor woman go to the grocery store and have no idea how she could You know actually navigate it like a normal human because she needs to go to the brands that she's aligned with It just starts to feel too curated and so

Steve Feuerstein (58:50.511)
Joanne, in three commercials, I couldn't remember and distinguish brand attributes, and they were radically different product categories. But because they had her dribbling in each one, not even speaking, it literally got to me to be almost a duplicate of just tapping into her talent. And for the brands themselves, I felt that they did, it was a very, very, very difficult brand differentiation proposition.

Joanne Pasternack (58:58.606)
Mm -hmm.

Joanne Pasternack (59:02.862)
Sure.

Joanne Pasternack (59:16.462)
And really that's why you go with the best advertising firms when you're thinking about how to put messaging out. I worked on an amazing campaign last year with the Brady Anti -Violence and Gun Awareness Initiative. No, no, yeah, thank you. No, it's an organization, non -profit, that's focused on reducing gun violence in our country.

Steve Feuerstein (59:20.015)
Mmm.

Steve Feuerstein (59:30.842)
And of course for our listeners that's not Tom Brady.

Steve Feuerstein (59:41.711)
from the Brady bill when President Reagan was shot and one of his advisors was shot and was critically wounded. Yes.

Joanne Pasternack (59:44.142)
Yes. Exactly. Yes. And so, so we were working on this campaign and we were thinking about which athletes who want to integrate into a public service announcement that would help to, increase awareness for safe gun ownership. So not don't own a gun, but safe gun ownership. We worked with this incredible agency based out of New York that was thinking about how we could ensure the authenticity of the messaging.

And because of their creativity, the end result felt so real that the six athletes who participated in it didn't come off as being monetarily incentivized, but really that they were looking at it from the perspective of this is something I believe in because. And so that's really where I get to this point where I'm like, there are creative ways. So in this particular ad, we had...

a biathlete, which is cross -country skiing and shooting. We had a wheelchair tennis player, two NFL players, a WNBA player. It was an Indigenous NCAA middle distance and long distance running champion. And each of them had a reason why they wanted to be on this campaign. And we leaned into that.

Then I would say you can creatively allow people to use their voices, but that's why athlete's voices exist. Is let's find the place in the space where you're most authentically leveraging your voice to amplify a cause and then let's continue to lean into that. And then you could have 55 brands if you're consistent in your messaging and you're saying, I'm doing all of this because I believe in. In Caitlin Clark, if I were rewriting the script for her, I'd say,

Caitlin is about community and Caitlin is about neighborhoods and about places like Iowa where we have the old fashioned barbecue and we have the 4th of July and we're gathering together and you need to rely on each other because you're in more rural areas and you don't have the big city, you don't have the Walmart next door. What do you do? Well, people like Caitlin come in and they bring a community together. And what are all the things that represent a community gathering?

Joanne Pasternack (01:02:12.622)
That's how I'd put it together. And then, and I think that then she could probably expand to 50 brands if it was all aligned with what makes a community great. What's making, what makes your neighborhood a home? I'm Caitlin Clark and this is my message. You know, so.

Steve Feuerstein (01:02:29.167)
So I just have a clarion call to Caitlin's agent. If you heard Joanne today on the 50, as someone who truly doesn't want to see her in 50 advertisements that are distinct for 50 different advertising categories, go up to 49, but hold off on the 50th. Ms. Pasternak, as always, you're a good friend and you're an outstanding representative of the sports business industry. What an honor and privilege it was to have you on the Transaction Report today.

Joanne Pasternack (01:02:33.806)
Yeah.

Joanne Pasternack (01:02:57.198)
Well, thank you, Steve. I appreciate it being on the show today. And I will always be an admirer of the work that you're doing and our shared passion for the analytics of the passion that we put into our work is something that I'm really grateful for. So thank you for having me on the transaction report today. And I look forward to further conversation.

Steve Feuerstein (01:03:17.423)
Likewise, Joanne, I'm gonna also just start just in case we do it, we're figuring out how we're gonna do the openings and we're embryonic of some of the creative. So I'm gonna start by just saying, Joanne Pasternak, first and foremost, an old friend and a true leader of the sports marketing, sports management industry, heavy emphasis on teams, leagues, associations, and athletes in particular, among other skill sets from the Warriors.

Joanne Pasternack (01:03:22.51)
Mm -hmm.

Steve Feuerstein (01:03:44.943)
to the greats at the 49ers. Joanne has led in positions at the Special Olympics. Heads up a very, very interesting boutique group called Oliver Rose, where she is the CEO and president. And Joanne, what a, I'm gonna cut from that point. Joanne, what a pleasure it is to have you on the Transaction Report today.

Joanne Pasternack (01:04:07.374)
Steve, thanks for having me on the transaction report. Appreciate it.

Steve Feuerstein (01:04:11.023)
Brilliant. Miss Pasternak, thank you. Thank you for going over as well. I kept you a little over. We started at around 4 .06. So, wonderful.

Joanne Pasternack (01:04:13.614)
Thank you Mr. Kroesling. It's all good. Yeah we did. There's Chandler.