Steve (00:00.206)
we're gonna, as you do the countdown, I'm gonna get a few points with Ed before I get into the interview, okay? Yeah, sure, absolutely. If you would like to start with whatever you would like to discuss by all means, go right ahead. We are recording right now. Great, thank you, Kristen. So Ed, first of all, and again, I...

Yeah, just extremely sensitive to the fact of the news that I read and that you shared. And at the same time, we'll make this meaningful. we'll have-

Professor Ed T (00:30.439)
Thank you.

Professor Ed T (00:55.357)
There you go.

My video looks great. Just so you know, it looks great on my end.

Steve (01:24.632)
I think we're going to have a class action suit against Riverside.

Professor Ed T (01:32.925)
you

Steve (01:34.648)
I'm turning this around just so that I have a what I hope will be a little bit of a better visual than what I've got. But I'm not, not for my kitchen, but I can raise it up and yeah. Okay. A little better than what we had. Am I getting, am I, am I even Christian? Christian?

Professor Ed T (02:02.205)
You're good on my end.

Steve (02:10.072)
Okay. Okay. Thank you, Kristen. All good. Yeah. So Ed, are you, you're in obviously you're in North Carolina,

Professor Ed T (02:21.361)
I am. I'm in Raleigh-Durham area, and that's why I teach at Duke.

Steve (02:31.498)
Anything that's that in situationally in sports right now is top of I've watched quite a number of your interviews. I've read some of your articles. You know, I've done what I think is a, you know, pretty good feel of, of some of the, you know, some of the vantage points that you have in your expertise. Is there anything that's top of mind for you today in sports that

is just someone asked you what's really making you strategically think these days.

Professor Ed T (03:08.765)
mean, the two major topics that, so I'm teaching business of sports this semester and to a hundred eager Duke kids, including some very currently rich and future richer basketball players. And I think the dynamic that we're seeing with this professionalization of amateur sports

It is the first or second inning. is the Wild West. is untamed territory that we don't know where this ends. And what you're seeing really is, and I hate to say it, I was a defender of the NCAA for years, but I think through bad leadership, through bad press, through bad...

PR through bad decisions, the NCAA is just not going to be a viable organization in the next 10 to 20 years. And it's sad because I've always felt that amateur sports has a place. am one who Steve and Kristen, I believe very strongly that getting a Duke education is worth a lot of money. It's worth a lot of prestige, it's worth a lot of work.

But I think more and more you're going to see less and less of the affinity of having a degree from one university, as you will, the affinity to make a lot of money while you're able to do it in a quote unquote amateur setting.

Steve (04:51.48)
it's very interesting. I've never thought about this aspect of academia. You being one who came from financial investment background, you obviously UBS, you went into sports legends. You were involved, believe you were the CEO over there in legend sports. Teaching at Duke, class load of many of which are noted athletes. If I heard correctly, Cooper Flagg is in one of your classes.

Professor Ed T (05:21.341)
Sure. Yeah, it sure is,

Steve (05:21.443)
Is that correct by the way? Yep. So you're an agent. were an agent. Christian Leitner was in your portfolio at the time. So let's delve down into that. First, I'm gonna just respond by saying you've prompted a thought and no pun intended with prompt engineering. But I believe a future degree may very well be one who goes online and amalgamates a degree.

by virtue of designing a degree, by inputting in your prompt engineering, a particular focus of academia, a particular bent from a university, philosophically, politically, culturally, whatever that university angle interests you. And you might be capable of eclectically designing your own

degree, whether it's undergraduate, graduate, etc. in a fashion that has been unprecedented in history of the human race, forget the United States.

Professor Ed T (06:28.933)
Yeah, I mean, along those lines, you have the classic engineering degree, public policy degree, religious studies degree. mean, that's where there's a certain prerequisite for courses that you have to take freshmen till you graduate. was an economics major. I was a Russian major. But both of those were designed with a lot of courses.

that were particular to that degree. What you're seeing now, and I think it's the evolution of academics, it's a different discussion, but is you are seeing that a lot of people are discussing what a French art history major is worth, and therefore why is it a degree, and you're seeing a lot of cutbacks in certain degrees, in certain areas that

You know, people don't really find the productivity that's going to come from it. What Duke does, Duke has all the regular degrees, but then they have a level two degree where you sort of plan out what you're saying, Steve. I want to get a certificate or a major in European soccer. And I'm going to design a degree, interdepartmental and extra-departmental.

I'll find sort of a group like Public Policy that has two or three courses, but then I'll also get courses from across the spectrum and some dean is going to sign off on that and that's a level two degree. You are seeing more and more kids do that. I think that to have a cross section is so vital for teaching kids what they want to learn.

not what you want to teach them. You know, I've been very fortunate in that I am a fairly successful professor. I get a lot of awards. And I always say it's not so much that Ed T's a great professor, it's that I teach them what they want to learn. They want to learn sports business. Duke doesn't have a sports business degree. So if you're going to get your toes wet, there's about four or five of us who teach courses in the ecosystem that is sports business.

Professor Ed T (08:49.585)
And yet Duke is a university whose representation in sports and entertainment is phenomenal. It's commissioners, it's team owners, it's leagues, it's unions, it's Amazon, it's Netflix. I we have this unbelievable footprint and that's what kids want to learn. And so to your point, this idea that I should be able to sort of design a course outside the norm of

pub Paul of econ of, you know, sort of the six or seven ones that, that most people ascribe to things that it's essential. And if I'm going to have an athlete, doesn't have to be Cooper. I Cooper's going to be gone. Gone. There's nothing Zion Cooper. There's a few kids that are going to take an ed T class one time. So last time I'm going to see them. but, but if you're going to have stuff that attracts the, the 18 year old athlete,

Steve (09:31.479)
Yeah.

Professor Ed T (09:47.825)
so that he wants to take courses, so that he wants to maybe come back, not because he has to leave, but I think that's gonna be a huge leg up. We're in a space right now where every single school is allocating money for budgets to attract kids to play football, basketball, et cetera. Every single school, they're raising tens of $20 million, $30 million to go out and get kids to come. And at some point,

What we have to have is not just that I'm going to offer Steve $2 million to come be a quarterback at Duke University. I want to offer Steve $2 million. And by the way, you're going to take some really cool courses with some professors who know stuff that you probably want to learn. That's going to be the difference maker. Otherwise, what you're going to find is the Alabamas, the Tennessee's, you know, in football are just going to say, we have a bigger check.

This is why you're to come to Alabama. So it is an interesting dynamic that we're at, but again.

Steve (10:52.066)
Yeah, you got basically sports garkeys, if you will, in the process. And I just want to just because we talk a lot of technology as well in this program, I'm punctuate one thing if I wasn't clear. I see into the near future that we will be able to use large language models and their successors.

in a way that I will be able to tell them either choose for me among these 20 universities, what their pedagogy is, and I want you to fuse for me from Duke, UNC, Clemson, Harvard, University of Vermont, Columbia, you name it. And there is a particular professor whom I know. And it happens to be you as one.

whom I'm interested in actually integrating into my, into my, whatever my design curriculum is. And what's so interesting is, as we look at where we're going with students who are taking traditional lecture-based, what I would call 20th century model of education, even though that goes back for millennia.

What we do know is that there were methods of teaching that had far more engagement, and this has nothing of course to do about your course, but what we know as well, and this is where I wanna lead with people taking sports marketing degrees. Our primary business is a technology and artificial intelligence software development company to maximize, optimize, optimize, maximize and measure a sports sponsorship. Many of us have been on every side of the equation for decades in this industry.

We want to do that, we're doing that objectively. We want to extricate the human from the opinion based of how much value did you generate from your sponsorship of the tar heels? We want to get data science, which can render a far more objective opinion than Steve Feuerstein, who let's say owned a particular property, sold it to you or had a proxy there of sell it to you.

Professor Ed T (12:56.615)
Mm-hmm.

Steve (13:13.741)
and then come back and tell you what the value was. So, interestingly, when we talk and much to cover, but I do wanna probe a little further, because I started teaching in the 90s, overseas, I lived in the Far East for 13 years. And it's interesting, I look at my own companies, I don't know if I've ever really had anyone who's been a sports marketing major come into the business. And when I look at some of the leaders of the large sports marketing groups in the world,

some of the guys I know running them, and I don't know many of them, but I know of them. Many of them don't have sports marketing. Yeah, Casey Walshman doesn't have a sports marketing degree, right? So at the end of the day, when you look at Vino over at, at CAA, he doesn't have a sports marketing degree. Mark McCormick didn't have a sports marketing degree, nor did his son Breck. So when you look at the concept of majoring in sports,

Professor Ed T (13:45.445)
Wasserman, Learfield.

Professor Ed T (14:01.255)
Great.

Steve (14:09.908)
One anecdotal is realistically so much of what makes, in my opinion, someone successful in the business of sports, depending on what avenue you're getting in. Nicole Lynn, obviously one of the leaders, and Hertz, by the way, direct agent, she's on, however, at CAA, didn't have a sports market. She was a lawyer, trained at classical law. So to yourself,

What is it that a young person is gonna be doing today wants to get into the business of sports? Cuz we simply never hire on the basis that we saw someone had a BA in sports management or BA in any aspect of sports marketing.

Professor Ed T (14:55.077)
Yeah, so I'll say a couple of things there. I I'm going to get back to what we sort of discussed just about five minutes ago, which is this, know, professionalization of amateur sports. mean, last year, this year, there's going to be $1.5 billion spent on NIL. And that is going to a college athlete saying here, I want you to rep my product. And to your point,

the large language models right now are barely existent in the NIL space. So if I'm Coca-Cola and I want to have a grassroots marketing campaign for a new drink in a bunch of different campuses, don't, there's not a lot of pure sports marketing AI to say, hey, you should talk to

the captain of the rowing team. talking to Kristen in rowing because she has a group of 10,000 followers. That does not exist. Right now, it's sort of happenstance. And what you're seeing, Steve, is a lot of kids who want to get into not just repping, but sports marketing, getting five or 10 of their friends on campus who are athletes and going out and calling Kentucky Fried Chicken, calling Coca-Cola. It is...

It is the Wild West when it comes to not just NIL, but sports marketing in the NIL space. And I am one who believes that the 1.5 billion that we'll see this year distributed probably among 400,000 athletes. That is not a very organized field right now. It is a very disorganized field where

Steve (16:39.384)
Mm-hmm.

Professor Ed T (16:51.805)
You know, you have a soccer player who has a deal where he has to show his product three times and he gets a case of, you know, energy drinks. It's a really fractured market. And I love fractured markets because fractured markets in marketing, you and I both know that will lead to someone who's not fractured, who takes over the market. It's a great space to be. And so when you say about, you know, how do kids and sports marketing, I think

Steve (17:08.472)
Opportunity.

Professor Ed T (17:21.819)
The big agencies are gonna either start acquiring a lot of little agencies where they have five or 10 athletes or 20 athletes, but you're gonna see more and more consolidation where someone is going to be able to, at North Dakota State, who has 10,000 followers, is gonna be able to have a rep in LA who's gonna say, I can get you a Nike Coke or whatever. I mean, that's where I think we're headed.

Steve (17:31.084)
Mm.

Steve (17:50.808)
So it's interesting when you look at our world of, you know, I used to have an agency of 400 athletes, 150 Premier League players, et cetera, et cetera, golfers, all different sports. And I want to just be a little more emphatic about a point you made that is interesting in this element of disruption or this phase of massive disruption that we're in technologically, number one, as well as in the sports industry in every aspect of its existence.

where whether it's rights fees going up and broadcasting and have been for time immemorial, and where previous presidents of major networks never believed in 2018 that you could surpass rights deals that were negotiated back in the late teens. And to your point, opportunity abounds. have, read, I forget which.

Professor Ed T (18:27.502)
yeah.

Steve (18:47.896)
which medium covered it, but slice management. Two young fellows, sophomores at Syracuse University in 23, Brandon Gilbert and Jacob Tillam, sophomores at school, started slice management and they are all in on exactly what you said. And you see it being replicated all over the country. One further point, I did an interview a ways back, have been a year ago when my research on the subject of high school.

students engage in name image like us in endorsement deals. There were 28 states in the United States for which it was permissive as a high school student to engage and be paid for your services. I mean, there were students leaving Texas literally to go to other states because the mother said, right, and exactly, in North Carolina either. So they were moving to other states with a high school student.

Professor Ed T (19:19.617)
yeah.

Professor Ed T (19:35.515)
And we're not one of them, by the way. North Carolina's not one of them, right?

Steve (19:46.268)
literally so their son or daughter could be paid and perhaps take care of a single parent family and other children for which there is no guarantee. In fact, we all know statistically improbable that that youth would ever become a pro athlete. And so to your point, we're in a highly disruptive period. We have, as you said, a major governing body for decades yielded or just let it go on on what would be monopoly coasting.

And is now, we are watching this, there are now 40 states, not 28 in the United States, that permit high school students to engage in endorsement deal business. And so with your good self, I'm gonna go back to, and then we'll shift to some other topics that I've enjoyed reading about your thoughts. It seems to me, in a classical sense, if I'm teaching at Duke University today, or any university,

It seems that so much of what we have to learn and what we need out of a young person today is very much a Robert Frost moment. And I've got two paths that I have diverged. And that divergence says to me, I can either be highly entrepreneurial and do what you said.

And there are many ways to do it. could be representing athletes, could be starting an event management firm. There are many ways they could start expressing themselves in social media, all areas that they might have an opportunity to contribute individually and be entrepreneurial. But I'm going back again to the traditional concept of learning sports marketing. And I guess I want to pose to the professor, what does that even mean today in 2025 for an 18 year old who's so excited

to be a Jerry Maguire or be in any aspect involved in this very seductive industry. What would it even mean to successfully teach a student today, engage a student with the energy and the excitement and that seduction of our industry and be successful? What would one need to transfer to them to leave that university and be capable of pursuing a career in this field?

Professor Ed T (22:06.535)
So I'm going to delineate a little bit. going to say that the agency part is player representation versus the representation for NIL or sort brand advertising. They're kind of two different things. And I say that not, that there's not a lot of 18, 19 year olds who are going to become sports agents.

That's usually something that is left to, you know, a lawyer or a senior executive. But the representation, Steve, for getting together some sort of sponsorship deal, that is where I do see a lot of 18, 19, 20-year-olds who happen to be in class with a Tyrese Proctor, with a Cooper, with whoever. mean, they're friends.

And there's, unless you're that top, top, top athlete. Now I will say this, what shocked me was what was, as you know, now because of NCAA's deference, you can have an agent in college, not, to go pro to play, but to have, to have a deal to have,

to have a deal with Coke or Nike or, or foot joy or whoever you can have an agent that represents you for NIL. And that's really where I say this, these are just pros now because it's fifth year, sixth year, seventh year kids who are just making a lot of money. and so the very top guys and I know them, I have them. mean, they have agents, they have really respected CAA agents who are representing them, you know, to get them top deals.

But the other kids, the captain of the women's lacrosse team, the starting forward for the men's soccer team, I mean, they don't have agents. They have friends or people who say, hey, I can get you a deal with. That's the entrepreneurial side that you're talking about. We have a very famous group here in Durham called TeamWorks. TeamWorks was started by a Duke football player. It has turned into a massive organization.

Professor Ed T (24:27.933)
that is an NIL sort of factory. And I was started by a Duke football player who said, know, the basketball team is one thing. They're on TV 30 times a year and everyone knows every player and they have immediate representation. But the football player is 100 kids who have helmets on. And I want them to be able to talk and have a view and have a voice and...

Zach started this company and it's turned into this huge sort of organization grassroots for college players of all sports. That's what you like to see. The classes I teach this semester, I teach sports business and entrepreneurship. So I teach both. And what Duke does not have is what Syracuse does, which is the David Falk School of Sports Management.

And those two guys that you're talking about, that's what they were in. They were in the David Fox School of Sports Management. And David Fox, someone I know very well, he was trying to recruit Christian when I was Christian's agent. I mean, that's what you need. You need that catalyst on campus that says this is what sports agents or what sports marketing agents should look like.

Steve (25:43.106)
You know, it's interesting, and I'm glad you made that distinction so that our viewing audience is entirely clear. perhaps the best illustration that I could bring down would be Rich Paul and Maverick Carter. So when you look at LeBron's representation, and so you have his, and it's confusing at times for people, because they see Maverick Carter.

Professor Ed T (25:58.493)
Yeah, right.

Steve (26:07.32)
striking the Nike deal back in 2017-18, reputed at the time, was funny how the quote unquote journalistic sources were claiming it to be a hundred million dollar deal and their sources told them it was two hundred million dollar deal, et cetera, et cetera. And obviously, as we know today, it's a lifelong plus one billion dollar deal and equity, et cetera, et cetera. What is interesting is Maverick Carter is not his agent. Maverick Carter is his business partner.

So the deal he did with Warner Brothers with Maverick Carter, his endorsement deals with Maverick Carter. So the Kia deal with Maverick Carter. But when LeBron's negotiating a deal with the Lakers or any team, that's done through Rich Paul. And you're right. You need that very well versed expert and buttoned up very well structured negotiator and business expert, legal expert to be able to handle that. And typically,

Professor Ed T (26:36.551)
Correct.

Steve (27:05.785)
unless they're a savant, someone 18 year old is really not gonna be able to handle that type of responsibility. So I'm glad you mentioned that, that the opportunities abound, you have several hundred thousand or more college students for which, as you said, they are vehicles of communication that whether it's in a very local environment, at their local auto shop or pizza place, whatever it may be, there are avenues for which they can.

Professor Ed T (27:29.084)
Sure.

Steve (27:33.356)
be better off than they were yesterday and spend less money out of their pocket. I'll just bring back something I read and it deeply shaped my 35 year tenure in this industry. And that was, I read a book by Mark McCormick, the founder of the sports marketing industry. It was called Success Secrets. And he said, never pay out of your pocket for anything you don't have to.

Professor Ed T (27:48.349)
Absolutely.

Steve (27:55.416)
And so therefore I realized why I understand this company can't pay me 500 grand or a hundred grand for a sponsorship, but they can give me $10,000 for my staff to eat lunch at their great restaurant. So why not bring them in some capacity and do a deal? And anyone who, as you were describing, has some street smarts and motivation and will learn through the world of hard knocks and get better at it, there are a lot of opportunities in the business side of it.

With that said, it's interesting as I look at some of the core, at least what has been exposed publicly of some of your views of the business of sports.

It seems like we're in the midst of enormous, enormous sea change overnight. So much so that we saw articles that saying DEI is dead. But at the Super Bowl, there was going to be perhaps a skew towards more sentimental or quote unquote, more creative messages in the space. You've been interviewed and discussing how

certain issues of individuals who are transgender playing in a league for which it was not their birth gender. It seems like the last three months, based on some of the former interviews you've been involved in, it's been just a massive sea change in what's going on in the country. What's permissible? What's going to be debated? What's going to be discussed in the courts system?

It seems like this thing is on fire right now in all avenues. Is that something that you've been thinking of recently since you have been quite vocal about particularly men playing?

Professor Ed T (29:46.619)
Yes, I brought this up that we love sports and the common sort of battle cry is, let's leave politics out of sports. That's why we love sports. But you really can't because sports is always going to be the flash point for society. Sports is, regardless of affiliation politically,

regardless of gender, regardless of socioeconomic standing, sports is a passion for 95 % of all people. Everyone has a favorite team, favorite player, favorite sport, favorite whatever. And so you sort of see the contrast between what we want to see and what we hope we don't see. And that's an important distinction.

We don't want to, if you, if you have Colin Kaepernick kneeling, half the country says you shouldn't do that. I'm not going to watch anymore. The other half the country says, yes, we need that. We need sports to lead. Uh, you know, Ann Coulter says, you know, shut up and dribble. These are sort of very telling times when you see, and this is going to get to why I'm kind of very

changing my mind on why the NCAA has dropped the ball, so to speak, was transgender sports. a great example. I have a lot of student athletes in my class who are female.

lacrosse, you name it. They will...

Professor Ed T (31:35.517)
95 % of the time say men shouldn't play women's sports. The transgender does not need to be part of women's sports. And culturally, it's really not a good thing to sort of have people not have access to what makes them happy or what is considered discriminatory. Sports is always going to be that showcase.

that allows either a platform or a non-platform. And basketball has been at the forefront. And Adam Silver, Duke guy, great commissioner, he's been very vocal in letting the NBA be a social justice warrior. Now the NBA is 85 % black.

The GM's 85 % black, so it's a little easier. But Adams always felt that that's part of what makes the NBA is that you've always had social justice warriors. know, the Will Chamberlain's all the way up. know, the Llew Alcindor's, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's, you always had them leading political fights.

It's not my place to say that, that transgender athletes should play sports, in whatever field they want. That's not what I do. Mine is just to point out that sports does provide this incredible platform where, as you said, Steve, 120, 30, 40 million people watched the Superbowl last night and they saw the black national anthem playing and they saw,

you know, a halftime show that half the country is going to say was the worst show they ever saw. But that's done, you know, that's sort of what the NFL does. That's what the NFL wants to do because they have shifted a lot. They have shifted a lot from when it was 32 white owners. It's changed a lot. It is much more inclusive than it was, whether you like Roger Goodell or not. The NCAA on the other hand.

Professor Ed T (33:57.733)
I'm just going to point this out as to why I've changed my view on the NCAA. We had a situation in North Carolina, and I'm not going to, I'll make it quick. We had a situation in North Carolina where I'm going to guess it was six or seven years ago, eight years ago. They passed a bill that's called the bathroom bill that said you can't use the bathroom that you choose. has to be the one that you were born with.

And the governor came out and said, that's what we're going to do. Cause the city of Charlotte had passed one that said, use whatever bathroom you want. And I remember at the time, you know, saying this is North Carolina politics. And all of a sudden it wasn't Steve. It was the NCAA saying we're going to ban any NCAA tournaments from coming to North Carolina because of your bathroom policy.

And I remember so distinctly saying that is not your place. You're, you're opening a can of worms that you're going to have to close one day. And, sure enough, um, you know, eventually North Carolina, it didn't change the law, but they sort of, um, went, and, tweaked it a little bit so that the NCAA could one year later have tournaments. I mean, Duke basketball and all the bowl games, cetera. So.

That was the NCAA. And then they changed their policy again. Well, what did they do this last time? So President Trump says, you know, we're only going to have men play men's sports and women play women's sports, no trans crossover. What does the NCAA do? Well, okay, that sounds good to us too. You can't do that. The NCAA has no backbone. They have no morals. have no, and I'm not saying they're right or wrong. I'm saying you can't change that.

You just can't you can't say athletes can't get paid you lose in court and then you say okay athletes can get paid That's what killed the NCAA. It just it just obliterated them

Steve (36:01.368)
You know, just for our understanding, obviously you've been involved in this for a long time, many, many years. Before the last election, presidential November, if Cooper Flagg as an example, wanted to play on the Duke women's team, would have been permissible for him to do so?

And you mentioned about David Silver being.

Professor Ed T (36:25.797)
If he identifies, if he identifies as, according to the NCAA, if he identifies as a female, you're allowed to play. Now, what the NCAA added was there's a certain hormonal level that you have to be trying to obtain. Not that you had to have it, but you had to be starting the process. And there was a certain time period, but yes, you could. didn't have to go through, that's the big scandal with the volleyball player for San Jose State.

I mean, she's a really good volleyball player. She was not a great male volleyball player. She's a really good female volleyball player. And all these schools, even her own teammates, were saying, you know, this is not fair and, you know, people are getting hurt. And the NCAA said, yeah, but we, you know, that's what she's going to be allowed to do. And then President Trump wins and they say, you know what? We're not going to allow her to do that anymore. That's kind of what hurts her.

Steve (37:22.787)
By the way, with your comments about David Silver.

Professor Ed T (37:27.065)
No, no, just that's what hurts your outlook. That's what hurts how people look at you if you're not going to stick to a cause.

Steve (37:28.278)
I do.

Steve (37:33.432)
So your episode, yeah. The common thread has been that your dismay at the hypocrisy or the, they used to say in politics, he's a flipper. He'll go with the wind to appease whoever is in the majority. I wanna go back to one comment you had about David Silver and being a social warrior. Excuse me, pardon me, Adam Silver.

Professor Ed T (37:46.631)
Yeah.

Professor Ed T (37:55.068)
Adam.

Steve (38:00.568)
I grew up actually with a David Silver in Scarsdale, New York. I haven't thought of his name in probably 40 years. So Adam Silver, if LeBron James decided tomorrow that he wanted to play in the WNBA, would that be permissible?

Professor Ed T (38:02.397)
I know David's over.

Professor Ed T (38:17.563)
Well, again, what I understand it to be now is you have to identify and you have to have a certain hormone level, testosterone level that either you're getting treatment or you're at that level that you're allowed to, in the professional level now, that that allows you to play at that level. If you identify, it hadn't happened yet.

It has not been yet. And there are some players that people question, officially that's the rule. You have to have started the process. At the amateur level, particularly high school, it's simply however you identify. It's not hormonal or anything. It's just how you identify. And that's why you're seeing more cases at the amateur level.

I just want to say one thing about the NCAA and I'll make this quick. The NCAA was founded by Teddy Roosevelt, sort of. That's when everything started back in the 1910s and 20s. There was a lot of people getting hurt playing football. The NCAA, that's how they started. They said, we need someone to look at rules for amateur sports. And as they did that, you sort of added layers and layers and layers. One thing that the NCAA was

always responsible for was academic accreditation. It was always what, what, you know, how many credits do you need to graduate? How many hours do you have? What's a GPA? What's a minimum SAT score to get all these things? That's what the NCA sort of built around. Then it, then it got into other things. We had a big scandal in North Carolina.

We had North Carolina, UNC had the AFAM scandal, which was the African-American degree at UNC. And it came out that a lot of football players were AFAM majors. And a lot of the work that they were doing came into question because someone leaked a term paper.

Professor Ed T (40:41.917)
for an FM course that was a one paragraph paper that the kid got an A for, very famous football player. So was a big investigation. And what they found was that yeah, there was a lot of phantom courses, no one enrolled, kids got credit for it. There was a lot of independent studies. You I do a few independent studies, Steve. It's, you know, you can do one or two or three a semester. It's work though, because you have to meet with the kid every two weeks and you don't have to.

have outlines for what they're going to do. Well, this one professor had like 200 independent studies in the course of a semester. There was a lot of courses that had like listings for a hundred kids and only two were taking it, but they were all football players. The NCA does this investigation. The state, the UNC does its own investigation. They say, yeah, this is bad. We had a lot of people graduating with majors that didn't do

any work. They were there for football and basketball, women's and men. The NCAA says we're going to investigate this too. They investigate for five years and we're all waiting for the NCAA to say here comes, you know, a year probation, a death penalty, whatever. The NCAA comes out and this is what they say. They say, well, yeah, there was some bad stuff going on for sure, but

Because they offered those courses to regular students, it's not our purveyor. There's nothing we can do about it. Well, that's when a lot of people said, well, what are you there for? I mean, you're there. You can't even when a college themselves say we're cheating, you can't even punish them when they admit it. Then what are you? What is your goal? What is your mission? And that was, you 2017 or 18 when all this came out.

That sort of, to me, was when I lost a lot of respect for the... By the way, not because it's UNC. If it had been Duke, I would have felt the same way. But it was just this sort of, we don't want to get involved, so. Anyways.

Steve (42:48.728)
Yeah.

Steve (42:54.765)
You know, just springboarding as we try to bring this to a vision of your sense of where, I see it on a technological standpoint. I see where humanity is grappling with its relevance. We go into meetings daily and say, we need a human for that. It's almost as some type of

Professor Ed T (43:15.505)
Yes.

Steve (43:23.201)
And by the way, just kind of a secondary reference, we need a human for that. It's a fascinating, brave new world to be discussing strategic solutions for companies and recognizing that the vast majority of what you're attempting to do is render obsolete the human in the process. Paradoxically, one of the first in industries or

Professor Ed T (43:47.197)
Mm-hmm.

Steve (43:51.05)
or lines of Java.

Steve (43:58.936)
descriptions, job, what would we call them? Excuse me, fields rather. So when we look at the fields, the paradox of one of the first fields in industry to have been torpedoed by artificial intelligence was paradoxically actually the software development field. I mean, just in the last several weeks, there's the next edition, the next generation of quality control, quality assurance.

Professor Ed T (44:19.505)
Yeah.

Steve (44:28.864)
software development for which there are zero humans in and it will literally render obsolete many quality control quality assurance divisions of staff. You know there's a big talk in the tech world today of the first ever one person unicorn business one billion dollar valuation company founded by one person manned and staffed by one person.

So when we look towards this future where we just can't extricate all that's going on as you started off economically, politically, culturally, with issues that there are views espoused very often by those who represent a very small group, but we live in a country whereby that small group, because of history, I believe it's rooted deeply.

in the ills of what can happen to a minority when the minority doesn't have those espousing their point of view. And therefore I do think there is a lot of historical, I don't want to call it baggage, but learnings of what we've gone through in the 20th century that said just because I'm not the one being persecuted, I'm going to ignore my fellow. I think a lot comes out of the lessons of the 20th century that said someone feels they are not the gender that they were born with.

And therefore, I can't discredit their entire identity. That's the cogent argument that I would espouse if I had to objectively argue a position for at least why I need to consider possibly involving someone. I want you to know, just for the record, I have never been able to intellectually process when someone is biologically more capable at birth than I am. Like the boxing.

Episode saga at the Olympics this past Heal the bits in Paris I just no matter how much as I racked my brain to try to find a plausible explanation for me to be sensitive enough and I have the sensitivity but I until there was nothing that could sell me that a male boxer should enter the ring with a female boxer It's just it's just not possible for me to my brain can't process that nor could it process that LeBron James?

Steve (46:50.148)
should be, if he so chose tomorrow to identify as a woman, to be permitted to play within the construct of female basketball. Hard for me to fathom an explanation that I would find reasonable and fair to the women basketball players and the Caitlin Clarks of the world. So moving forward, we've heard a lot of talk about the NCAA, where it might end up going, and the possibility that not going

And there being a new superstructure for which either college becomes, if you will, the G league of the pro team, a minor league team. And ultimately all of these beautiful historical teams in colleges that we so support have become so industrial, so professional that they are nothing more or less than an extension of an actual major.

professional club. What do you see coming down the pipeline five, 10 years from now?

Professor Ed T (47:56.605)
So I want to touch on something you said before.

our industry, academia, we have this incredible challenge in front of us, which is artificial intelligence on the student side is something very, very hard for us as professors to detect, to grade, to instruct. You see these 20 page term papers that are brilliantly written, and you kind of say, that

Did chat GBT write that or did this kid write that? Right. It's very, very difficult. And one other thing that I see a trend in academia that bothers me a lot, which is a lot of professors have adopted through multiple.

Steve (48:36.535)
Shakespeare.

Professor Ed T (48:57.565)
apps or whatever, simulations, where every week the students are required to complete a simulation, you're graded in that simulation, and that all becomes part of your grade. I see that as something counterproductive to the energy, to the ecosystem of Steve being in my class learning from me. And it is, so I blame both sides. I say that the professors,

love technology because it makes their job easier. And the students have learned very adroitly to write a paper. Now, I have things that I do to make sure that they can't write a chat GBD paper, but it is amazing that it is that that technology is invading academia in a way that we never imagined. And it makes it very hard to sort of have that symbiotic relationship.

that I think is why they come to Duke. Not, you know, take me out of the equation, but someone like Ed T is why they come to sit in a classroom on a Thursday night from 6.30 till nine. And they don't have to go to class. they can, you're graded whether you come to class or not. Attendance is not your grade. But if you don't have something that is inspiring,

and it becomes sort of automated, then why did you come to Duke? Other than it's very true that Duke grads aren't unemployed. So I just want to throw that out there because you're talking technology. I'm saying I see it every day. I see it as to the NCAA and the future of the NCAA and the college being sort of the minor leagues. It's a big question. When I started teaching at Duke, when you and I were in the business together, go back to 2010.

We had CBS, ABC, NBC, and Fox was just starting. Believe it or not, that's how old you and I are Steve, but Fox was just starting. You know, that was Rupert Murdoch's big ploy into sports. have four places that were going to acquire sports content. And that was it. That was the marketplace. And you fast forward to today, whether it's Dzone, whether it's Amazon or Netflix or Hulu or Disney or all these places that need

Professor Ed T (51:20.221)
consumption of sports. And so the NCAA as the authoritative vehicle on amateur sports, that's dead. It is now a league driven. It's the ACC, the SEC, the Big 10, the Big 12. These are the leagues now that are going to determine the fate of amateur sports. They're the ones that are gonna do these contracts. It's not the NCAA.

Steve (51:38.68)
Mm.

Professor Ed T (51:48.669)
that just signed a contract through 2036 for ACC football. It's the ACC that did that. What I think is gonna happen that's going to shock a lot of people, and I think it's gonna happen within the next year or two, is there's gonna be a group that gets together to buy 50 % of Duke basketball for a half a billion dollars. You're gonna get a bunch of private equity people to come to Nina King and Duke University and say, we're gonna give you $500 million.

And for that, we want 51 % of Duke revenue from basketball. And it's going to be, someone's going to say, here's $2 billion. We want to own 50 % of Texas football. That's the next step. It's going to be this idea of major groups looking for not content, but revenue that comes from quote unquote amateur sports. you know, the

the numbers and I just wrote a chapter in a book about sports valuations, sports franchise, but from an investment standpoint.

Steve (52:55.193)
You also in a beautiful article you wrote, you wrote a beautiful piece by the way, where and I've said it for decades, if you wanna have a sure thing in your life, just buy a team. And you will, if you were David Beckham buying, well he paid 25 million for that club, Inter Miami, what's it worth today, it's 1.3 bill?

Professor Ed T (53:08.042)
Right.

Professor Ed T (53:15.697)
Yeah. Yeah.

Steve (53:17.753)
Look at Jerry Jones at a 10 billion valuation three, four, five years ago, he was at a five billion valuation. So do you think just to hone in on that, do you think we're gonna see this? I two pronged I gotta get from you if you don't mind. Ed, T, and that is if the president of your school asked you, should we sell to private equity 51 % at half a billion? What would you tell her? What would you share with her?

Professor Ed T (53:24.198)
the

Professor Ed T (53:30.183)
Sir.

Professor Ed T (53:40.871)
Two seconds, I'd say absolutely. Absolutely, because for this reason, it's $500 million means you will be able to get any high school basketball player you want. You won't have to worry about coming up with an NIL deal or calling JP Morgan to say, we need a deal for Cooper flag. You will have the money to sort of self-medicate.

Steve (53:45.634)
Take the deal.

Professor Ed T (54:10.609)
you're players. You'll have a leg up on every other basketball school. Because what the NCAA has approved, or even though it wasn't their choice, is schools can directly pay players now. Every school can directly pay a high school kid to come to that school. So if I'm Duke basketball, I can call up the ed-tees of the world and say, hey, there's this really great player that we want to get. Can you?

Can you give us a hundred thousand bucks? And I'll go, sure, cause I really want to get that kid. But $500 million means I never have to raise money again to go get players. And that's, that's what Texas is going to do.

Steve (54:48.536)
The presumption, the only presumption is we're presuming that no other competitor of your school is doing the identical deal with other private.

Professor Ed T (54:58.459)
No, I am assuming that they are. I'm assuming that, you know, it's hard to come up with another Duke. UNC would probably be a school that would raise a lot of money. I'm saying we don't have to worry anymore about raising money with the idea of let's get players. Put that and say that's done. And Duke would raise the most money. The Duke basketball team, they would raise the most money.

If it's worth 51, and I'm coming up with a number half a billion just based on what I know roughly about the revenue of Duke. But yes, I think that's gonna happen. What is it? Yeah, it's about 60, 70 million bucks a year. 60, 70 million dollars a year is what Duke basketball generates.

Steve (55:34.966)
What is that revenue on an annual basis?

What is their annual revenue?

What percentage of that is broadcast?

Professor Ed T (55:49.213)
That's just what Duke gets paid. That's what the basketball team generates revenue-wise. I guess from ticket sales as part of the Iron Dukes, as merch, as tournaments, all those things, as being part of the NCAA tournament, because we have runs in the tournament, we get $1 million, $2 million, It's about $60, $70 million bucks a year. So an eight or nine multiple.

Steve (55:54.338)
from the...

Professor Ed T (56:18.117)
Right. Which is sort of what an NFL team would get an NBA team would get. It's about an eight or nine multiple on the top end. That's about why I say it's a half a billion dollars, but even you forget the number, it's irrelevant. The number, the point is you're going to see equity companies, private equity companies who are interested in sports coming in and taking over college athletics.

You know, the NBA since 2014 has averaged 24 % a year return per team. So go back to 11 straight years of 24 % plus. Since 2000, the NFL has averaged 14 % a year every single year since 2000. That's 25 years of 14 % plus. NHL, MLB, they're all about 11%.

Right? So it's a very gifted market. What I'm saying is when the NBA does a $7 billion a year deal, there's not many sports that are going to generate that. So people are going to start looking for new avenues. And it's not pickleball. know we think pickleball's going to... Yeah, it ain't pickleball. Pickleball's never going to be doing a billion dollar yield. But college sports is.

And I think that's going to be that that's going to be such a cool thing when the first college team sells an equity stake. I think that's when people are going to go, where did that come? I'm telling you, I know that's coming in and that for someone who does sports business, that's so cool, man. It's coming. It's coming quickly.

Steve (58:05.898)
So Ed, out your, as we, we'll call this part one and we'll do this again sometime, but play out your model. We sell 51 % to, you know, there are dozens of private equity groups that will put up that cash. Okay. Their goal as a private equity investor is obviously to provide a strong return on investment to their investors. So.

Professor Ed T (58:13.373)
We will.

Professor Ed T (58:20.528)
Right.

Professor Ed T (58:32.816)
Yes.

Steve (58:33.336)
What happens five, seven, 10, 12 years down the line, eight years down the line, 10 years down the line, that private equity group wants out. They own 51 % of Duke. Do they get the right to sell the entire squad and your school gets another windfall? Is there a prohibitive clause that says you can never be fully bought out? You have first rights of re-ownership. What happens in that scenario? Do we ultimately see the...

public investment, private investment fund, PIF fund rather, from Saudi Arabia coming in and offering three billion to buy Duke as a team. How far does this play out? And ultimately what happens to the school itself to be divorced from the team which has been part of their legacy for 200 years?

Professor Ed T (59:04.071)
Right?

Professor Ed T (59:14.301)
Steve.

Professor Ed T (59:21.981)
First of all, I think you're playing it out perfectly. I mean, you don't need me. You're playing this out exactly perfectly is that a group comes in, they take 51%, Duke is still the managing partner. Just like Mark Cuban is still the managing partner of the Cubans, just of the Mavericks. Duke is still the managing partner, but someone does own 51%. Seven years down the road, the...

investors of that fund say, hey, what's our cash out? We've done really well. We've gotten a dividend income. Probably, Steve, not all of them are going to want to sell, but they're going to sit there and say, hey, can you find another buyer? There will be a line of people in the same way that there's always a very captive group that wants to own part of the Dallas Cowboys. So there will be a line of group that comes in. Duke University sees this asset that they had, which was worth a billion.

is now worth four billion. Here's a new influx of money, which has got to sort of go across the department. mean, Duke gets more money from it. And yes, it's official that the equity stake either transfers partial or full with a new silent majority partner. And that's, we've created a new sort of professional viewing of sports that is still called amateur, but it's not.

Steve (01:00:44.578)
nicely.

Professor Ed T (01:00:47.345)
I think that's exactly where we're headed. And you're right. Think about this. You're talking about sovereign wealth funds. I'm talking about endowments. That's the next wave that's coming. And I've talked to the Duke Endowment about this. Endowments are going to start making equity investment in sports. It's a very, not to get to granular, it's a very non-correlated asset. The market can go down 15 % in a year. Sports team doesn't.

It's a very substantive growth pattern that doesn't change much.

Steve (01:01:23.449)
If you just checked one quick point, look at Jerry Jones having come out of COVID and seeing his team double in equity valuation in the course of five years.

Professor Ed T (01:01:34.887)
Right. And think if you're an endowment and you've got this asset that's paying a dividend, which they all do, they all pay a very nice dividend, and you have this non-correlated asset that is less volatile than any other asset in your portfolio, I need to start looking at money in. The only negative for endowments is liquidity.

Really, they have so many non-liquid, non-performing assets on their books. It's just one more. So what I'm saying to you is the marketplace for something like a Duke basketball, it is a different group of investors that they're gonna have a very good long-term approach to owning Duke basketball.

Steve (01:02:20.738)
So here's something, and I'm so enjoying this conversation. So now I'm thinking Steve Bomber, David Tepper, Mark Cubans of the world, know, Cohen at the Mets. So here's the one challenge I see, to make this really work so that ultimately there's almost no distinction between pro and what would be near pro and ultimately truly pro, what we've called college amateur sport.

Professor Ed T (01:02:24.061)
Sure.

Steve (01:02:50.228)
is that there's going to have to be some functional change to the option to get out of the school and egress to a pro team. Because if I'm Steve Bomber and I'm buying a squad, I want to know I've got some stability on my team and I can sign someone to a contract. And if I want them there for a period of time, they're not going into a portal tomorrow and stiffing me and my squad that I just paid all this cash for that was so, so attractive, all of sudden was decimated.

by some very smart shrewd players at other schools that outflanked me. And all of sudden I'm sitting on a community college in its quote unquote market value of talent because I was just deflated by some smart business folk that bankrupted me of my talent.

Professor Ed T (01:03:34.941)
So my answer to that would be something like the Carolina Panthers. I mean, what do you do when they just stink for three years? What do you sit there and you say, I've gone through three coaches. I've gone through, I lost my starting quarterback. I drafted the wrong quarterback. That's sports. You're going to have ups and downs. What doesn't change, you do.

Steve (01:04:00.386)
What most of us say is get a new owner.

Professor Ed T (01:04:04.423)
There you go. But what does change, I'm sorry, what does not change Steve is the revenue stream. So when the Atlantic Coast Conference signs a 10 year deal through 2036, you know that there's money coming in, whether Duke stinks or doesn't stink, whether John Shire is the coach or John Shire is.

Steve (01:04:24.214)
Yeah, the challenge I'm going to jump right in on there for maybe to just jump in on that one. When you're the Learfields, the all the big boys play fly and others operating at doing nine figure deals with certain schools, depending on what type of basketball and football teams they they sport. At the end of the day, your sponsorship can get decimated multiple times over. And so I understand you have a certain

you know, certain conferences that you're a part of and you've got certain guaranteed long-term income. But I would have to imagine, and this is again, this is the frailty of a model where you have people who can either go into a portal or declare they want to become professional and their vision is to play for their dream team, which is, you know, name any team of your choice, the New York Giants.

And they want out of that great squad that they were recruited for, for which these billions of dollars went into. And again, most importantly to your point is that there's now an accountability that I have shareholders who are demanding maximum performance for return on my investment because you assured me I should be getting somewhere between 12 and 18 % on my capital on an annualized basis. Well, if your team just gets blown out of the water in year one, because of the talent you had.

There are lot, again, there's a lot to think about. It's interesting, it's fascinating, but I agree with you. I think the model, it's forever gone. There is no going back to a 20th century NCA model.

Professor Ed T (01:05:58.737)
Well, I'm just saying, Steve, I'm just saying what's the difference between that and owning a professional team? What's the guarantee with a professional team?

Steve (01:06:08.44)
The difference between that and a professional team is, first of all, you and I, we're perhaps a year apart. At the end of the day, growing up when we did, I mean, first of all, we're a different ilk than the young folk today. Number one, we had complete loyalty to a specific team. That's number one. So in today's world of Gen Z, Gen Alpha, there's a lot of loyalty to a player. And as that player travels, well, my new team that I'm going to be partisan toward is where my favorite athlete is playing.

Professor Ed T (01:06:20.348)
We are.

Steve (01:06:38.07)
Number two is I knew that if I signed an athlete, usually he was a lifer. Derek Jeter, I had the privilege of living next to the Yankees in New York City. And I had the privilege of watching Mariana and Derek and others play there and never travel elsewhere. And that longevity, there's a certain sense of fan, I think there's an emotional, deep emotional psychological connectivity to a

to purchasing merchandise, to being a part of the lore of a team where I know that this athlete, I feel he talks or she talks to me. And I feel so connected to the history of what they've built there and those who preceded them, that there's this passion of a fanatic, of a fan that is so just...

in the DNA of the human being that makes this the most seductive legal entity in the world, sport. That if I cannot know that next month, next year, those whom I am so committed to that I want them to build this institution that I live near and visit and frequent and have on their wall, their merchandise, and as you do behind you, that helmet of Duke for football.

and many other memorabilia that you have. I think it's going to need some more permanence that I'm not convinced we figured out just yet in this singular first meeting.

Professor Ed T (01:08:07.559)
Yeah.

Professor Ed T (01:08:12.433)
that right so that's the difference

But that's the difference between a fan and an owner.

Your description of being a fan, I get it. I'm talking about being an owner. Owners make decisions that fans don't always like. Tom Brady did end up going to Tampa, didn't he?

Steve (01:08:24.6)
Hmm, interesting point.

Steve (01:08:28.92)
You know what? Fly away with that. Yeah, I hear it.

Steve (01:08:37.666)
But the private equity, the private equity, but the Stephen Cohen and those who you and I both know, big boys who need big toys, because usually when we grew up, they were marginalized, they weren't the athletes. And when we were kids, those who were not athletes were really in many ways the brainiacs. I truly believe by the way, there should be cheerleaders for the best mathematicians in the high school. Like I believe.

Professor Ed T (01:09:03.101)
Yeah.

Steve (01:09:05.389)
The best writers should have their own letterman jackets. And so we know that until that happens, that these guys who are marginalized and frankly very often might've been a little teased or put down by the macho jock. All of a sudden said, you know what? The best payback I could ever have is I founded a company, I made Oku bucks and I'm now gonna frankly, without the indentured servitude,

Professor Ed T (01:09:26.791)
make more money.

Steve (01:09:34.078)
in my own psychological construct, my greatest payback is I can buy you and you report to me now.

Professor Ed T (01:09:43.197)
I don't disagree. I do not disagree. I'm just saying, your argument is perfect for fandom. But as I said before, I tell so many people, where did Tom Brady end up? He did not end up in New England. He ended up going to Tampa Bay. Because, how popular was that with the Patriots, with the fans? But that was a decision made by the owners, which they thought was best. So I'm saying, there'll have to be a lot of

Steve (01:09:49.144)
Private equity takes that all out of the game.

Steve (01:10:12.076)
Well done.

Professor Ed T (01:10:12.859)
guardrails, 100%. But just, I'm just telling you what I envision and it's coming. I'm telling you, it's coming.

Steve (01:10:16.184)
Yeah.

Steve (01:10:21.72)
It's coming. It's here. It's here. It's here. And it will be fascinating to see as kind of school. And we actually heard this from someone in investment meeting where we're at a capital raises sports biz. And this is the transaction report powered by sports biz, main company. It's interesting. We were in a meeting where someone, don't know if this is accurate. So I'm sharing with you prof something that I cannot validate firsthand. But he said he was in a meeting with Casey, Casey Wasserman.

And Casey Wasserman's postulate, very much, I think, very much in sync with you, was that if the NCAA doesn't get its act together, ostensibly Duke and its logo will be just like licensed merchandise. And they will become ostensibly sub-tier entities within a professional infrastructure. And someone will pay a licensing fee

Professor Ed T (01:11:05.725)
You hear this?

Steve (01:11:17.741)
for the Duke name and logo. It'll be an NIL deal with the institution. Yeah.

Professor Ed T (01:11:17.757)
Julia Phil. Julia Phil.

They pay it to Learfield. That is the way it is. again, Charlie Baker is nice guy, but he's the wrong guy to head the NCAA. You don't need the governor of a state to be the head of the NCAA. You need a businessman. You need someone who knows transactions. they've had person after person after person who are all sort of very stodgy.

Steve (01:11:28.726)
Yeah, in many ways.

Steve (01:11:35.383)
Mmm.

Professor Ed T (01:11:49.479)
political, that's not the NCAA needs a pragmatic businessman to save them. And it's just not in the cards.

Steve (01:11:59.128)
You know, I'm gonna punctuate what you said by the following. I was in a meeting with the CRO of Turner. We were gonna do a project for them. And they said to me, hey, look, we pay at the time, I think it was 900 million, they're paying the last deal I think it was with, it was a CVS, They have the March Madness. They have the full blue box or the full circle of the NCA with 90 different properties, teams of the NCA.

And basically the only ones they really paid for were actually, it was March Madness, it was the Frozen Four, and it was the College World Series. And everything else was really just, they got that because they had to pay the NCA this enormous rights fee for which they got all the rights to 90 teams for which about four, five, six of them.

Professor Ed T (01:12:49.447)
That's what you do.

Steve (01:12:56.771)
They were actually maximizing from a sponsorship standpoint, corporate sponsorship standpoint. And what's so interesting to your point as a business person coming in to run the NCCA, you have about, of your 90 properties, you have about at least 80 of them that had been prior to NIL completely neglected. opportunities abound, this is the standpoint, but you were really a three sport entity.

Professor Ed T (01:13:17.597)
Mm-hmm, correct, yeah, absolutely.

Steve (01:13:25.78)
And you're right, in today's world of NIL, there's a grand opportunity for disruption to bring up into the fore, particularly in the realm of sponsorship and rights fees from broadcasting, where simply you've been priced out, where you can't even get in. Their barrier to trade is so extreme to even get your foot in the door that you need to start moving over to other more plausible sports while they're available. So with that said,

Professor Ed T (01:13:53.393)
That's what happens.

Steve (01:13:54.922)
I want to thank you profusely for making this a very interesting discussion. I'm going to dedicate this show, I've never done this in my entire 35 year career in media, even though that's not my primary career. used to, I should mention, used to be on four hours a day, five days a week, tri-state New York. Socio-political talk is my second job. But I've never done this. I'm going to dedicate this show to your father.

Professor Ed T (01:13:57.863)
My pleasure.

Professor Ed T (01:14:18.717)
Cool, I love it.

Steve (01:14:23.736)
95 year old man whom I know just in meeting you and what you shared with me, you loved him deeply, deeply, deeply. It's too fresh to imagine that it's only six days. He was clearly a legend to Duke. His son followed in his footsteps. And Ed Teriyaki, what a pleasure it is to have you on the Transaction Report today.

Professor Ed T (01:14:23.997)
Thank you.

Professor Ed T (01:14:28.625)
Unbelievable man. Truly.

Professor Ed T (01:14:40.327)
I did.

Professor Ed T (01:14:46.173)
Thank you, Steve. I really enjoyed it. It was a wonderful experience and anytime you need me, I'm here for you. Thank you.

Steve (01:14:52.896)
I appreciate that. Likewise, likewise, we should talk sometime and share notes on what we're experiencing business with. said, know Kristen wants you to hang for just

Professor Ed T (01:14:59.229)
Get you down for a Duke game. We'll get you down for a Duke game so you can see why it's so valuable.

Steve (01:15:03.597)
You got it. I just gotta, I gotta let you know one thing, my CMO Dave Wharton, whom you met and spoke to, not only is he a big Clemson boy, but he was a two year mascot for the football team. Kristen Dinezza, Dinezza, did his, yeah.

Professor Ed T (01:15:14.061)
my gosh, I forgot the Clemson mask is tough. Thank God he didn't bring it up. Maybe that's why the volume didn't work for a while. Maybe that was God in reading for me. Thank you.

Professor Ed T (01:15:29.916)
Yes.

Steve (01:15:34.826)
Of course. So we did an outro. I never did an intro with you. Right. So let, let me just, of the points of your background that I have, is it that you're a lecturing fellow in the marketing management studies program?

Professor Ed T (01:15:48.093)
Visiting Associate Professor. It's a Visiting Associate Professor at Duke, and that's since 2011.

Steve (01:15:49.206)
Is that correct?

So just visiting a slow sector falls under.

Professor Ed T (01:15:56.901)
my 15th year. No, UBS Investment Banking and Legend Sports Group. You got it. Those are the big ones.

Steve (01:15:56.992)
Okay, is there anything else you would want me to mention? Anything else you would want me

Steve (01:16:05.72)
And then I want to make sure I pronounce it properly. Is it teriyakin? or T-R-I-A-K-I-A-N? How do you like to say Can you say it? T-R-I-A-K-I-A-N.

Professor Ed T (01:16:10.375)
Yeah, perfect.

No, Tyriacian's fine. Tyriacian, yeah.

Steve (01:16:19.672)
Teriyaki, tear or tear?

Professor Ed T (01:16:24.263)
here.

Steve (01:16:26.914)
Thank you.

Steve (01:16:36.876)
What an exciting edition of the transaction report we have today. Joining us is Ed Tyriakyan. He is a 15 year journeyman at Duke, actually much longer. He's teaching as a fellow lecturer at Duke University. He actually is a graduate, an alum of Duke University. He's a finance expert as well, former career at UBS. Led up a major

Sports Marketing Association. Ed, on behalf of all of my colleagues at the Transaction Report, what a pleasure it is to have you on today's show.

Professor Ed T (01:17:15.845)
Wonderful to be here, Steve. Thank you.

Steve (01:17:20.151)
I'm gonna ask you to do that one more time without the, so if you just, I should have said it in a different way at the end, you knew you were being welcomed to the show, but just imagine that I just said, Ed, welcome to the Transaction Report.

Professor Ed T (01:17:33.309)
Thank you, Steve. It's great to be here. I'm looking forward to a wonderful interview.

Steve (01:17:41.068)
We are too. Kristen, let me just get one more time. Ed and we are too and I know it is going to be one of great interest to our viewers, particularly with your triple threat background. So with that said, then I'll go into our first question. So Ed will be in touch. Our team will turn this around quite rapidly. They'll share with you a video of a link as well as a little bit of how you can help.

maximize this to your audience and we're thrilled to be working with you. know that my team has some connection on some I believe it's social media work and we'll certainly make that very very meaningful for them and again I can only tell you more importantly than anything we discussed is just that I pray that your father should only be always remembered as a blessing and and we'll continue to get to know each other.

Professor Ed T (01:18:28.497)
Amen.

Professor Ed T (01:18:33.629)
Thanks so much, Steve. I do appreciate the blessing. Thank you, Kristen.

Steve (01:18:36.534)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, have a great.

Steve (01:18:53.472)
So Riverside won't continue to upload even if he bows.

Steve (01:19:07.82)
Let me just check one thing please. If the guest closes his window, let me just double check. In Riverside.

Professor Ed T (01:19:13.949)
I'll be glad to leave it open. Don't worry about me.

Steve (01:19:24.224)
and it is still uploading.

Professor Ed T (01:19:24.913)
gotcha, no, I'm just gonna mute myself so I can get some stuff done. And then I'll, right, okay.

Steve (01:19:32.792)
Thank you, Ed.