Steve Feuerstein (00:02.672)
Thanks, Ry. What a pleasure. Iconic. Brandon Steiner. Legend. Sports industry. Memorabilia. Been across every aspect of the industry. Brandon, 7 .30 in the morning. You just worked out. Welcome to the Transaction Room.

brandon (00:18.402)
Thanks for having me. I liked the introduction. Appreciate it. Listen, if you're waking up late, you're other people take advantage of your dreams. So I don't want to, you know, I always like to get off to an early jump.

on my terms. So I'm gonna start controlling my day, meditation, exercise, get myself organized, make sure that everything I plan makes sense, which sometimes it just doesn't. But meanwhile, I'm always ahead of everybody else. Whenever else is waking up, I'm already like two hours ahead of.

Steve Feuerstein (00:50.518)
Is the meditation on gratitude?

brandon (00:52.939)
It's on gratitude, it's on slowing down, it's on making sure that I breathe correctly, is a really big issue for me. And just making sure that I stay present for all the greatness and amazing things that happen in the world today.

Steve Feuerstein (01:01.742)
For the human, by the way, the human

Steve Feuerstein (01:08.388)
By the way, human race, Brandon, one of the biggest problems of the human race with stress, anxiety, panic attacks, anxiety disorder, is that we were trained coming out of the body for abdominal breathing as a baby. And then when we dealt with the flight or fight syndrome, we ended up doing thoracic breathing from our chest. And why is anxiety one of the most pervasive issues in America? And it sounds very obtuse, but it's very real because we don't know how to breathe. We still breathe from the chest.

brandon (01:36.087)
No question.

Steve Feuerstein (01:37.2)
and from our stomach. So you do that. You get up two hours early in the morning. Again, it's nice to see you at 7 .30 AM that you've done your workout. You've been up for two hours. And what's interesting is, you said don't count the days, make every day count. So it's a nice way, one of your maxims, make every day count. And as we make every day count, both you and I have been in the sports industry our entire careers. You came out of Syracuse in 81. I came out of UVM in 84.

And at the end of the day, when I was at your office, when we lived near each other in my hometown of Scarsdale, you had your office in Rochelle. I had talked to you about my main company, Six Startup, which was a technology company, which is our main business. The transaction report is powered by SportsBiz. And what I found fascinating about you is you got me by three years, but you live at a pace that truly is, perhaps there's...

a former president that lived at that pace, but there are very few people who can go 14, 16, 18 hours a day and really just enraptured with everything you do. Why?

brandon (02:46.309)
Well first of all and I don't feel I feel good and a because I can But you know, I I'm probably taking more vacation now than ever. It's a great antidote to to working hard and You know something I haven't worked 16 18 hours a day For probably 10 years because of the way I start my day I think the way you start today has a lot to do with how you finish your day and I feel like

because of the clarity, because of the rigorous workout, which helps me with my ADHD and the meditation, I feel like I get mostly everything done in an eight or nine hour day. Now, it doesn't mean that I'm not twiddling and dabbling a little bit at night and on the weekends, but not as much as I used to. I think that you'd be surprised how much more you can get done when you get some more clarity and you kind of get feeling a little better in general and your energy is correct.

So the whole workout thing is just to my energy correct. Try and eat as best as I can. But that's what enables me to do that. the answer to your question also, love what I do. I've worked really hard to be good at what I do. And I don't gotta do it. I get to do it and I feel like, as long as I feel that way, because there's some things I don't feel like over the years I've not enjoyed doing and I've stopped doing it. Because you...

When you really work hard and get good at what you do, you start getting choices. And there's some choices that I've made that, you know, there's people, accounts, clients, things that I definitely don't want to do. So I'm on a highway right now, Steve, with no red lights, no stop signs. I'm doing what I want to do the way I want to do it. And the only time I get off the exits is because I choose to. That's ultimately the best wealth you can probably find. A lot of people think it's the money.

or it's the big house or it's having multiple houses, but it's really not. It's the freedom to make choices according to how you feel and how you see things and spending the time the way you want to spend it with the people that you want to spend it with. Really highlight the last sentence, you know, spending time with the people you love, the people you want to spend time with, the people that appreciate you. You know, I have a lot of value. bring a lot to the table. And when I'm sitting with a client once in a while, I'm getting a sense that this is just going to be a transactional thing.

brandon (05:08.711)
I then make a decision whether I want to get involved with the transaction money grab, which sometimes I do. And then when I see it's going to be a little bit strenuous and maybe not for me, I opt out. That's the beauty. I don't care. You know, I have to go through some transactional stressful transaction to put food on the table. And that's the beauty of becoming really good at what you do. If that makes any sense.

Steve Feuerstein (05:32.112)
first of all, it makes total sense because back when I was building my first business in 1990, I used to schedule about eight external meetings a day. And I remember I was figuratively whipping the cab driver to get me to my next meeting. I was always late. I was calling every single, and these were CEOs. I own professional sports events and represented athletes at the time. And I was literally late for almost 80 % of my meetings.

brandon (05:57.321)
I've made the cab driver get out of the car and let me drive. I have told the cab driver, will give you $100 right now, slide over, I'm driving, you're driving too slow. So I've had my moments of insanity, you know.

Steve Feuerstein (06:09.712)
Okay, since we're going full throttle here, my former wife and I were heading to Hong Kong. spent 13 years in the Far East. was literally in 1994 taking a plane on Cathay Pacific from Taipei, Taiwan, the Republic of China to Hong Kong. The guy was, we were driving. I got on the phone and I called Cathay. This is pre 9 -11. And I literally said, Steve Feuerstein, American Embassy.

Hold the plane. The plane was due to depart in 45 minutes. We were about 48 minutes away from the airport. And literally, they drove us on the tarmac and got me to the plane. So we've clearly lived.

brandon (06:51.753)
These were the days when you had your contacts at the airport, they held planes for you. They got you through TSA, no problem. Just walk right through.

Steve Feuerstein (06:56.335)
You

How about meeting the athletes? We used to meet all the guys literally as the plane landed. I could be standing there, welcome Greg Norman to Taiwan, who was playing in one of our events. All the glory days. So basically both of us live full throttle and all of sudden, I don't know about you, but for me, panic attacks reign supreme. And you start saying, I want to live. I don't want to terminate early. And you want to move on. And what's so interesting about you is you're what I.

because I recall our meetings very well from about five, six years ago, is, and I think this is probably the joy you expressed and where you've gotten to in life, is very Passover -ish because it's control of time. You're no longer a slave to your ambition. You are truly someone who has somewhat, somewhat of a semblance of control over time. And you've made a decision to optimize your time. Yeah, please.

brandon (07:52.141)
I think so. I think at some point you better do it because you know, listen, life moves really fast. So, you your job really isn't to help it move faster but to slow it down. And I think also like if you really want to be productive, because at the end it's like how do do the most amount and the least amount of time is really the goal. It's really not speeding through the day. It's just not. And I always say if you have more than three priorities in a day,

then you might as go to a bar, go smoke weed. You might as well just blow the day off and have a party because you're probably not getting anything done. So I always start with three priorities. I have my B list, but my three priorities, they're going to get done before the end of the day because I don't want to put my head down at night going, God, I didn't get to do this. I didn't get to do that. So I'm always getting what I call my WMI, my what's most important. That's always going to be first and foremost on my list.

And I've got a plan to get that done. Then I'm knocking out the small stuff. I've got the small stuff on my list. I'm always rewriting my not to do list, shit that I don't want to do with people I don't want to do it with. I'm always that that's what will kill your to do list is the not to do list is, you know, people that, you know, drain you take energy away from you and sidetrack you the accounts that don't pay you the people that don't love you. You got to have that list pretty clear. So I know the people I got to stay away from.

projects that sometimes I get lured into that I want to stay away from now, make my three most important things really stand out. So when I put my head down on that, I don't want to feel like a failure. And that's what a lot of people are facing. Like you go get up in the morning, how am I ever going to get everything done? Then you go to sleep at night, man, I ain't get this done, I ain't get that done. And then you start waking up with anxiety, you don't feel good about yourself. So prioritization and then separation of what you don't want to be doing really helps you put that in order.

because it's really important that you feel good about yourself and you have good self -esteem. And way you acquire that is by getting the most important stuff done for the people that are most important to you. And I think that, you know, I always say if you want to have a great relationship, Steve, you got to find out what's important to them and they got to know what's important to you. And you got to do what's important for each other. And if you do that, the only way you can really do that is with prioritization every morning. Like I have to know what's important to my wife today.

brandon (10:13.992)
And I hope that she knows it's important to me because that's one of the most important relationships I've had in my life. So, and then goes on to the biggest clients and other friends and other relationships. Otherwise you go to bed, man, I forgot about my wife wanting me to do this, or she's just bitching at you, or you forget that a friend needed something. know, prioritization early in the morning, making sure you don't have too many prioritizations, like really over three, really is key because confidence and high self -esteem about yourself, it's really an inside job.

gives you that confidence to wake up in the morning and know you're gonna get it done. Know that you can get stuff done. Know that you're gonna get the most important stuff done. And then people start counting on you. People don't call me up and I Brandon's gonna do it. No, no. Now Brandon's doing it. Now granted, if sometimes things get a little deep, I will go to the end of the earth and I will stay up 53 hours in a row to lead up, to make up for a commitment I made. And then I'm gonna kick myself in the butt for making that commitment and being stupid or not getting the help I needed.

But you know, living up to what you say you're going to do is important too. So not over committing and getting your priorities in order all lead up to the same bucket. That's how it is for me. And you when you call me on Friday at five o 'clock, I'm in the office making sure that everything I promised during the week is getting done or communicating to people when it's going to get done. If there's a delay or whatever, because I don't want to ruin my weekend, that's what happens. People go into the weekend and it gets certain things done. Now, now.

I'm not leaving my office on a Friday, which, you know, I'm not a big thank God it's Friday guy, but I'm not leaving my office on a Friday until everything is really clearly organized, set up for what I promised. And then I have the next week set up pretty well.

Steve Feuerstein (11:55.477)
You obviously eponymous Steiner Sports without a shadow of doubt, the most accomplished in the history of the United States memorabilia collectible company in the country. You sold it, I think, multiple times, bought a bag, sold it. You have your collectible exchange now. You have Steiner Sports Agency. do a lot of social impact, a lot of VIP corporate hospitality, athlete interaction, athlete engagement. Just for our viewers to let them know, just a personal

You know, an anecdotal experience I had, which I actually told our chief marketing officer today, Dave Wharton, said, this thing blew me away. I called you up for our meeting and I had met you once and I was going to see you again. And I got your voicemail, but it wasn't you. And I'm a New Yorker and I get this voicemail that says, hi, this is Mariana Rivera.

A day, you Brandon's not in right now. Or if you want Derek to take it. I mean, you had Derek Jeter, you had Mariano, you had these voicemails. And I said, I mean, just the simplicity, but the brilliance, the brilliance of the, just gonna, I've never expressed this to anyone, but calling you, and I've worked with a lot of athletes. I said, I've never seen the ingenuity of something so

so empowering that makes a statement and it does it by others, not you speaking of your accomplishments. And obviously you still work Marianne to this day. And I just thought the ingenuity and obviously all the other buying all the seats in Yankee Stadium, all the other things you've done. But I want to go into your keen understanding of athlete value and how you perceive

athlete value and what is it if you had to distill it into its most base form of the power of an athlete with influence from your 40 years experience in the industry?

brandon (13:57.296)
Well, it's a good question. mean, listen, a lot of stuff has evolved with athlete marketing. So easy for us to talk about this now, frankly. But, back in the day, and I'm talking about 35 years ago when I first started, you know, it would take you a week to find an athlete phone number, let alone try to figure out maybe represented them, blah, blah, blah. So, you know, I was very quick to survey, like to have value. You value is what you can do for someone they can't do for themselves.

you need to do the research. This is what's kind of a little bit lost in athlete procurement now is you gotta do the research, you gotta know that's out. Not just how many Instagram followers they have, but what the personality is, what their likes, dislikes. So I always did a lot of research, always did a lot of surveys. I was the first one to send out surveys to athletes asking them favorite drink, favorite song, favorite music, favorite, if you ever had an injury, all that stuff. And find out stuff about their siblings, what happened when they was a kid, where they grew up.

or college, or high school, all those things will help you penetrate. Where a guy went to high school, that talent probably is named the field after that player, even if he's not a big name. Where they went to college, that's a whole nother market that that player probably is going to rock. So always say, you know, if you're dealing with a client, know where their customers are, know who the customer is, and try to match up the strengths of the talent. And a lot of times now with athlete procurement, like I was dealing with an athlete's agent the other day and asked him where the athlete lives, he didn't even know.

They didn't even know where the athlete grew up and he represented them. So like this is kind of what's lost, but the value of an athlete happens in so many different ways. But right now the social media context trumps a lot of things, which is fine. You have a big following, it helps, but we all know that that's not the whole story. So when you look at an athlete's value, you really want to actually look at what that athlete represents and what he represents to who. Because an offensive guard is maybe more connected to a blue collar.

personality, you know, in a quarterback or a coach, maybe to a white collar, nothing wrong with that. You know, we look at Travis Kelsey, for example, who, know, listen, who, what big guy, you know, between the age of like 20 and 35 doesn't love that guy. You know what I mean? And then now you got these teenage girls and moms loving them because, you know, you got the, the Swifty situation. So, you know, you've got to really research these things. I really feel like I, you know, and I know about the collectibles and this Steiner.

brandon (16:24.417)
And now, know, collectible exchange, we sell, we're one of the biggest marketplaces in the country now for collectibles. So, in you're stuck with stuff. I think I can match myself up with marketing of talent with anybody in the country. Only because anybody can market, and I don't, this is not a dig at David Falk, this is a genius. He did an incredible job, maybe one of the most smartest guys I've ever met with Jordan. But I can go and market, I'm not a big negan. That's the thing, like anybody can market.

the quarterback, you know, Aaron Judge right now, let's say, but can you market just a regular, normal, everyday player? Can you market a player from another country? Because remember, the player who's the right winger from Ottawa, he's still a rock star in Canada, but not a rock star, maybe necessarily in the cities playing. So there's all these different yin and yangs, if you're willing to do the work and get into an uncomfortability of having to call into cities and companies.

that you're not even familiar with, which most people aren't willing to do. And that's my key is like, I could take a B or C level talent, even for a big company and make that work. And I think a lot of times companies right now are really absorbed with the big name. They've got to have the Michael Jordan, the Tom Brady. But I say, no, you don't really need that. You can put a bunch of pieces together. I always say, them. You know, can come up with a theme, take the whole offensive line, take both running backs, you know, that kind of thing. And you can get the same.

pop. So, you know, I can go on and on about athlete marketing and procurement, but what bums me out is it's a little bit of a lost art. There's a lot of people because of the ability to make a couple clicks in a pic and get to an athlete thinks that they can market an athlete. But my clients over 35 years haven't left me. So I know I'm still doing a good job and I'm not in high pursuit to go. You know, I used to go every day and pitch this before I started collectibles.

I would go into PR firms, marketing firms, anywhere I can get a meeting and sell what I'm just talking to you about now. And now it's like, well, the brother and sister, the mother, you know, everybody thinks they're a marketer. And I see more talent. They have so much more potential not reach it because they just didn't go the right way with the right agency, the right talent. And it's, it's, it's growing though. I mean, more and more, you know, I've never seen a high of more talent.

brandon (18:49.022)
in ownership and marketing that I see now in the United States, at least anyway, and you kind of see it in Europe too. I mean, I was just in Italy and it's just a ton of marketing with the soccer players. I was in Australia last year with a ton of marketing with rugby and a little bit of cricket too. athlete marketing is strong, sports marketing is strong and it's definitely not reached its peak.

Steve Feuerstein (19:11.448)
If you were over on the other side, you were at an automotive brand, let's call it Lexus, and you were the chief marketing officer of Lexus, and you're looking at the marketplace and you're looking for an ambassador for an athlete, well, just give us again for the viewers, there were a lot of folk who are stewards of their brand dollars going into athletes, teams, leagues, stadia, events, et cetera. What would be your methodology? Just give us a of chalkbox.

brandon (19:40.106)
And I think Lexus does a good job is to jump into the tennis, which is a little bit more of their customer, their style. But, know, to me, know, marketing of the type of player that's a little more of a champagne type player. You know, Lexus is a luxury car. It's a high end car. So it's not even the guy who's making the most money, but he has to be kind of a high end personality. You know, somebody that is smooth, somebody that plays the game very consistently. So, know, something along those lines. So when you break it down.

who is the customer base versus who's the following of this athlete. It's usually a wide receiver, maybe. It's a pitcher that pitches with tremendous accuracy, which is what Lexus is. A very accurate, very tight, solid car. And I think you have to take your time. If I was the CMO of Lexus, I would not sign a national ambassador. I would go and get regional players. I really would. I wouldn't do that.

And the thing I like about Lexus, by the way, is I'm always following. If you really want to be a great marketer, it's not the deals you do. You got to follow all the deals that everyone else does. And I've been doing that for 35 years, so I've got a good... So like to me, product placement is really important. know, having players drive into the parking lot, knowing that they want to have a nice, safe, calm ride because they're about to go into a complete insanity on the field is kind of some of the marketing I would use. And I see good product placement on TV shows.

with a Lexus and the right type of TV show. We see it in suits and if they watch the suits, you see Lexus, you know, that kind of thing because we think Harvey is a smooth, guy and he's driving a Lexus. Good connection. So, you know, there are companies that get it and figure it out. And there are some companies like, you know, I've seen G to do a Ford commercial like really? Derek G is a truck guy. He's not a truck guy.

Steve Feuerstein (21:29.7)
Right. It's not fit. Yeah. Too sophisticated. Yeah. Yeah. No.

brandon (21:35.53)
I don't see that like a rod's not a truck guy, you know, maybe the catcher, I Posada would be right. You know, so like we think just a little Yankee analogy, but you know, like, listen, those are tough spots and there's different initiatives. I'm a really big regional. It's a little bit more work. like getting regional players because we ultimately, even in the car industry, when you're doing these automotive shows, you're doing these automotive shows all over the country and it's easy to grab a regional guy.

Steve Feuerstein (21:40.986)
Hmm.

brandon (22:03.976)
Now, not just any regional guy, I'm picking a strong regional guy. A that's not quite national, but he's regional, so he can hold his weight and must in a national slash regional type show. But you know, don't have to get Michael Jordan. You just want to attract some attention.

Steve Feuerstein (22:17.146)
So to your expertise on memorabilia, collectibles. So you said collect memories, you're not collecting objects, you're collecting memories. It was one of your maxims. you take a guy who's pound per pound, dollar for dollar, a better value than going at the marquee player who is a goat or near goat, talk to us about the power of memorabilia. And can memorabilia work for folk?

brandon (22:29.738)
Yeah, I think.

Steve Feuerstein (22:45.786)
who might be towards their end of the career. And let's say you are that CMO of Lexus, you did go regional, you went with a mid -level player, a strong player, but mid -level. How does that memorabilia resonate compared to when you know you're given out a Jeter shirt signed by Derek or Mariano? You know that's gonna resonate for the rest of the life of those folk who acquired it.

brandon (23:05.954)
I think the key when using memorabilia for, I would say promotions are for people not for profit. When you do a promotion with memorabilia, it needs to be very tight. It needs to be quality and it needs to be not a lot. Meaning it needs to be a nice product. And you know, a lot of times I go get a ball from, you know, I'll see a company do a promotional for a signed ball and it's not a bootleg ball. And anybody who really collects know those balls fade.

Steve Feuerstein (23:17.934)
What does that define tight, very tight? What does that mean?

brandon (23:33.111)
They're not worth as much if you use an official Major League Baseball. You see a quarterback on a bootleg football, and we know those footballs, these white panel footballs, they're garbage. If you're going to do a memorabilia, it needs to be authenticated. It needs to be an authentic game product, product that's used in a game. And you need to use the right markers, the right pens, and also it needs to be packaged the right way. And we've seen so many misses on this end.

Because people just think, just put an autograph on it, it's fine. If you're giving away a photo, it needs to be a great photo, not just any photo. So I think that you can use memorabilia. I tell players it's really critical how you start off because the heat or one of the key parts of creating a memorabilia career, if you're a player, is at the beginning. That's when most people are collecting you right at the beginning. People always collect first and last.

So when you want to get going with a player, you want to be very smart at the beginning. And this is where a lot of players are stupid because they overcharge because there is a market, there's demand. Just because there's a market and demand doesn't mean you should overcharge or charge as much as you can because you want some loyalty. You want people to be able to build off of your collection. So I always tell rookies to undercharge. Let's undercharge. Let's do really good quality product. And as your career evolves, people are going to want more. Most fans are fanatical and they're obsessed. They never stop with one.

You know, we buy and sell and help people with all their collections. Never do I see somebody come in with one Mickey Manoball. They got like 10. They got eight there at Jeter balls. They got five Tom Britt. You're obsessed with your players. So at the beginning, start off really, really light. It's just a couple hours more of signing and do a really good product. We see players not doing that because they think that the money and the demands coming, but it immediately stops. It immediately stops almost with every player.

And then at the end, when you're accomplishing great things, it's not also an opportunity to overcharge. I remember Marion there come to my office, he had just broken the save record. And he said, Brandon, you know, I think I deserve a raise. I think we should raise the price. I said, it's funny you come in and say that. I was thinking of lowering your price. And he's like, what? I said, yeah, like this is the time when everybody increased their price because they have a great moment. I'm thinking you lower your price as a thank you.

brandon (25:56.759)
for the fans to support you to enable you to get this record to break and make it even more available to more people. They're gonna flip out. And you know why you should do it, Mariana? Why? Because no one does it. That's why. And because it's generous and shows gratitude. And gratitude sometimes is a very big part of growing a business, is showing gratitude. Not thinking only gratitude, but showing it. And we know something, we end up lowering the price.

He ended up signing even more balls than we forecast. He ended up making even more money and people are tripping out because they're like, wow, this is unbelievable. And we got more people in the game. So, you you got to think out of the box a little bit and always think gratitude. You always say, if you want to increase your entrepreneur, if you want to increase your entrepreneurism, start with curiosity, which means finding who your customer is, find as much about them as you can so you can create value for them and enthusiasm.

Enthusiasm, the root word of it Steve is, enthusios. And that means to be with God, that means faith. You need to have enthusiasm behind your curiosity as you're figuring things out, as you're doing things for clients. You're doing that with tremendous curiosity because that's how you grow. And you're behind that is enthusiasm with faith, knowing that God is gonna eventually lead you to the right place. Because we all know.

We're not in control much, as much as we think we are.

Steve Feuerstein (27:21.742)
Rabbi Steinor, want to thank you for that keen Torah insight. It was beautiful, beautiful. So listen, you said something gorgeous. And I think for a lot of the people who know you well, and again, for the viewers here, Steinor sports, is the eponymous, it is the dictionary definition of, for,

brandon (27:27.509)
It's true though. It's best way I can communicate how I do business.

Steve Feuerstein (27:50.288)
what is it, 35 years of what you built in bringing to fans this fanatic identity, this connection between literally one of the biggest sources of revenue generation in the business of sports, fan cash, going into the system and literally feeling that affinity with the folk that they feel make their life better. It's their source of their passion. Total love.

brandon (28:12.743)
But do it with love. Do with love.

And it doesn't mean you have to listen, not everything has to have your last dollar. Everybody's feel like lately in a lot of businesses, people just feel like they have to have every last dollar. But who's to say when every last dollar is even going to exist? Because when you put in good love with a dollar, it lets makes those dollars stretch out and last.

Steve Feuerstein (28:37.584)
Well, that's very Scott Boris out like, by the way, because at the advent of Scott, there's no question there was an absolute uptick in I have to have the largest salary of that position in my sport. And he brought in this, I think he ushered in what was there, but certainly made it far more overt, which is I will get you the largest salary. And I think something did change in our industry 25 years ago with all those discussions.

brandon (29:00.749)
And I'll give you 10 examples of how that doesn't work half the time because when you get me and we feel with airplanes, you go on an airplane and you feel like you've been ripped off because they kind of got you. You booked it too late. And then all of a sudden, the next time you book in a flight, you have a little bit of a chip on your shoulder. You're going to go on another airline. So where does that help you? They got a little extra money in that one flight, but the next flight, they lost your business. So it's like, it's true. Like, yes.

Your job is to make money for your company. I understand it. I'm not saying you should be, you know, I don't care about the money because that's bull, but you know, be realistic and sensible because customers are smart. They're not stupid. And when you lead with love and enthusiasm, you know, something you can make a little less because over the long haul, if you're playing the long game, which is the only way you really could make a lot of money, you'll make it up. That's how I feel. And that's worked out for me.

Steve Feuerstein (29:53.968)
You said something really interesting that a lot of folk who follow your business are involved in it. There very few folk. We had the head of global sponsorship for Prudential last week on the show and behind him was just a pantheon of all his collectibles from Rutgers University, from the Prudential Center, from the New Jersey Devils. And it is, it's a source of joy, pride, passion for all of us who live where it's independent. Sports is not only active,

for many of us, but sports is absolutely an appendage for us. And I will say, you said something that I'd love for you to clarify, and I don't know how you do it, and I'm in data science. So if you could give us some clarity, you said you were with Mariano. Mariano, in my opinion, and again, I'm very biased, subjective being a New Yorker, but I think he's one of the greatest all -time athletes in the history of sport. With that said, you said to him, you said to me just now, you know, we increased.

we actually realized a net gain beyond our forecast. Can you clarify, just step one, two, three, four, what does a forecast look like in your industry when you're projecting what type of balls, let's say signature ball sales you might have with the likes of a Mariano Rivera?

brandon (31:14.568)
Well, you gotta be careful with the whole forecasting thing. I think forecasting is a necessary evil because it's what you think should happen versus what the world's ultimately gonna give you. And then when it doesn't happen, disappointment sets in and you gotta be careful with it because remember, it just a guess of what you thought.

which we know we don't fully control because the world is gonna react because of different things for its own reason. So you're trying to create situations where you can, if you've come up with a forecast, you're coming up with situations and also different things you can do to push to get the result you want based on stuff that's happened in the past. So to be honest, we have no idea we're gonna sell more balls. No, zero. It's a complete guess. But I always say, I don't know what I'm doing.

but I'm gonna do it anyway. That's I felt about that situation. But I also knew that I'd sold a lot of Mariano stuff and I felt like it was time to maybe with an act of kindness more than just doing a money grab. You we did a lot of money grabs at Steiner's, so don't get me wrong, and I get the money grab. think that sometimes just do it for the money. There's a lot of money, you make it. But I thought that at that time, given the personality, like Mariano.

And doing that would be a really, really good shining star and it would be a really cool thing to do because the industry had never faced that. We had dealt with a whole bunch of highlights with other players and gouged people for it and they were pissed. They were actually pissed because instead of excited about the moment, the home run break or whatever it was, they were pissed because they were getting gouged and being charged too much. I think Aaron Judd's making a huge mistake. He should be selling, even Michael Jordan.

signed 8x10s at a cheap price when he was playing so little Johnny could get one. And that's kind where I got a little of that idea from. It's like, remember the little kid, he can't afford some outrageous piece of memorabilia. So this was like, I thought it kind of a smart idea and an idea of gratitude that I thought matched up to my player's personality. I thought he'd go for it, but I had no idea. You know, I'm not, I'm, I'm, always say execution beats strategy for breakfast. Like I get,

Steve Feuerstein (33:21.831)
You

brandon (33:21.998)
that you need to forecast. get you need to put a plan together, but you know, execution always trumps everything. So when you dig down deep and try to create different ways to execute, it's always gonna trump your forecasting, your ability to guess.

Steve Feuerstein (33:35.524)
You know, athlete who's doing it really well, young athlete today that you look at and maybe that you don't have an affiliation with per se, but you say that brand identity of this newly minted professional athlete, let's stick with pro, and you look at any sport you want, can you give us one illustration of what that athlete has done that you've said that athlete, male, female, is doing it well?

brandon (33:58.596)
Well, you know, I think I did it well with Jeter, you know, over 20 years. Amazing. You he trusted me to not overcharge, to put out just enough. So I like that. I'm a big fan of that.

Steve Feuerstein (34:11.385)
Any young athlete in the game today that you see that, and it doesn't have to just be collectibles. It could be any aspect of the brand identity of an athlete. And you say, darn, that athlete is getting it right.

brandon (34:22.498)
You know, I think it's a great question. the truth of the matter is no, I don't see a lot of athletes because they they're all looking at the money and the money grab. And very few of them are trying to think while you ask that question. Like. I think that most of the top athletes right now are overcharging and overthinking what this is as opposed to building. And remember, you always get this quandary about what you could build versus what you can make.

Anybody who's listening, like what are you trying to build versus what you're trying to make? And there's got to be some kind of balance. And if ego and money always trumps people and principles, then you're probably on a road to to a dead end at some point. And it's funny you say that because I just don't know many athletes right now that are doing the right thing and are reasonable about what they charge. There's a few women athletes that I've been working with lately that are somewhat reasonable and smart about it. But

I wish the demand was more there. I wish more women would collect women. It's crazy, like the women are bitching. We should be this, we should be that. Well, I'd love to see more people collecting women collectibles, because they are great.

Steve Feuerstein (35:31.526)
Is that a verified stat, Brandon?

brandon (35:34.628)
I mean, listen, I just put together a whole collective around women, collectibles, and it just didn't do as well as I thought. You know, I did well with Alex Morgan. She was a good example where you just say I was reasonable, but nowhere near the demand it should be. Sue Byrd and Dan Atrasi. And then you get like Dan Atrasi retired last night. It's the greatest basketball player of all time. And it's the fifth line on ESPN .com and not a big deal. Like really? And you put the game on at like 11 o

night, which nobody saw, which is like, really? And you wonder why, like the pieces don't put together. And then nobody, nobody realized that they should be buying a Dianatrossy collectible, but they don't want. But then Caitlin Clark, who's a rock star, right? What does she do? Signs a deal. Ridiculously expensive. You got to, you got to almost win a lottery ticket to get the trading card. This was an opportunity for the sign thousands of autographs for every little girl in the country to get them going.

Steve Feuerstein (36:15.568)
other way you're yeah that's where I wanted to take us.

brandon (36:32.729)
And instead she signed some stupid deal that really our autograph is only on these trading cards, which are really hard to get and very little of the collectibles available. What a mess. And this is what drives me crazy because these are opportunities to grow a market again, build, but instead she took the ego and money. When ego and money trumps people and principles, you're in trouble. And it's hard to explain that in a collectible business because athletes just see the money and their autograph and they go to the, they're out of game and people ask him for the autograph.

but getting people to buy their autograph and view what they have as an investment, view what they have as somebody, look, you need to now invest in me as an athlete. That's what you're asking a fan to do. Then make it easy for them as the entry point.

Steve Feuerstein (37:17.636)
You know, Brandon, we spend a lot of time talking about the athlete. I mean, you are legendary for buying every seat in the former Yankee Stadium and putting it out to market. When I was in your office, I sat in one of them. was a pure pleasure for me growing up with the Yankees. Let's go away. And actually just another story on my CMO, his brother actually bought the court to Little John Stadium at Clemson and actually in his home decked out all his floors, obviously sand them down, repurposed them. But,

It's not just athlete collectible. And when you look at sponsorship, whether again, let's bifurcate. One side is sponsorship and the other side is collectible. So when we look at collecting above and beyond the athlete itself and collecting seats, collecting stadia floor, parsing it out piecemeal. What about sponsorship as an overall effective tool above and beyond the athlete? Do you believe the sports business industry works well?

when if you were back at Lexus again as the CMO and you were putting your money in the choices you have, which is athlete, team league, association, stadium, venue and events, that's what you got to choose. Do you feel if I gave you a hundred bucks as CMO, would that money go out the door almost exclusively to athlete or do you think it would be divided up across that spectrum?

brandon (38:42.138)
That's a great question. mean, you know, the problem I have with the sponsorship thing is, and you know, I've been doing that for years too, and that is, you go to these stadiums and it's just too much. There's too many things going on and it doesn't feel special anymore. yet, it really comes down to execution. know, activating a sponsorship is really hard. And the problem is the companies that, a lot of them that create these sponsorship opportunities, you know, to facilitate. So Lexus decides to go put their sign up at the US Open.

Steve Feuerstein (38:53.679)
The clutter.

brandon (39:13.71)
It's a good amount of money. The real money is going to the sign, but the most important money is going towards executing how you're going to communicate the fans that Lexus is now involved with the US Open. And I can't believe how many companies I see like Alexis where our dealership doesn't have tickets to the open. So, you know, how do you get the experiential stuff? And then you get the people that are involved in Lexus, involved with the sponsorship, which is like the last thought I want to put.

Whoever has the pencil in their hand involved. You go to Mass Square Garden, Chase is basically the name sponsor. None of these people that work at Chase have tickets for anything. know, executing, listen, they got a lot of money into Mass Square Garden, but executing when you don't have that kind of money is really tricky. And I always say, if you spend, let's say, $100 ,000 on a sponsorship, you have to have another at least $200 ,000 for advertising.

and PR execution to take that sponsorship and make it work. And a lot of companies don't forecast that and don't understand the importance of that. But the company that's going to execute and basically get that sponsorship activated is critical. And that's the hard work. Putting my putting my logo on the ice at a hockey game is easy, but getting people activated and understand what that logo on the ice means and showing the real connection with the players and the team.

is really hard work and there's not a lot of good companies that do it.

Steve Feuerstein (40:47.716)
You know, and I'm very cognizant of our four minutes left, so I'll edit this out, but I'm just gonna get two more questions in for you, Brenda, quick ones. So when you look back at the athlete portfolio with whom you've worked, these athletes, megastars, and as you said, some of them today, you're building up athletes who may not be household names today, but they're becoming household names, and you're bringing them into commercial relationships that are meaningful, that are good for them long term.

and it's great for the sponsor itself, for the corporate brand. Can you tell if you were sitting around the fireplace, the boys had a glass of whiskey in hand and cigar, and you had to reflect back on one time you were with one of the superstars, and you thought that the activation was a no -brainer with a corporate brand, and you walked in with the likes of a Derek Jeter, and you literally walked in thinking, you know, there's no way this can be a dud. The corporate sponsors got Derek Jeter, he's one of the greatest names,

in the history of Ball and you're walking in with him and you witnessed this or he told you about it per se, can you reflect on one legendary story where it's kind of a clarion call to sponsors, don't do what they did.

brandon (41:54.093)
I remember doing

brandon (41:59.259)
I remember I remember doing a activation with Derek Jeter at Ford and we were gonna give you went for a test drive you got a signed baseball which I thought was just a layup and it was unbelievable you know for our company because they were putting it in the commercials that you get this Derek Jeter ball authenticated by Steiner you know blah blah blah and it just didn't work it was actually too good a promotion it brought people in

Steve Feuerstein (42:09.219)
Absolutely.

brandon (42:25.422)
more for the ball than for the ride. And people wanted the ball more than the ride. So you can't overplay it. I think that when you do player appearances or giving away free stuff, you can't give away something too valuable because then you have people just coming in to try to get the gift, unless you're just trying to get notoriety that you even exist on the planet.

Steve Feuerstein (42:45.936)
By the way, that is so counterintuitive, by the way. That is so intuitive. I gotta meditate on that for one moment. Don't give away something too valuable because if the brand's objective is to market cars, at the end of the day, folks are just coming to get the free ride, which is the ball.

brandon (43:05.17)
When I, when I tell stores that are opening retail stores, I tell them that the goal here is supposed to come up with added value. I don't want to do a nothing. want to come up with added value, not the value proposition as a whole. want it to be added value to what you're doing. When you go to a store, I want you to come and shop. I don't want to have 5 ,000 people there waiting to try to get an autograph that knows very valuable. And then not going to go in the store and shop. want somebody to go in there and shop.

And as a thank you, I want to give you some added values you could take home and autograph something for your kid or for your husband or for your wife. And I think that I've talked to lot of people off the ledge on trying to go get the athlete, especially at a trade show, things like that. Like a lot of times people, unless you just go into this humongous trade show and you want to create that bedlam, you don't care. You just want everybody in the whole place to know you exist because you'll get some media, social media and everything else. You don't really care about the amount of people that are coming to your booth.

or come into your store, you just want to create ruckus. But be prepared for the ruckus and you're going to have a horrible day as far as interaction with sales and the result. But you'll get a return on interaction. So there's two returns, return on your investment, return on the interaction. Like if you want to go do that, but be prepared for that because people are going to be bummed. More people are going to come than you want. You're not going to be able to handle them all. And that's just something to be said about that.

Steve Feuerstein (44:14.864)
Quick one.

Steve Feuerstein (44:28.208)
By the way, biggest story in sport today, the business of sport, biggest opportunity story that you see today in our industry that's changed for the 35 years you've been in it. You see it trending right now, you've got your eyes on it, and you say, is a massive disruption in our business, and you might be capitalizing on it, you might just be observing it. What would you say that is today?

brandon (44:49.873)
It's a couple things. mean, obviously the women in sports are finally catching on, but I've been saying this for 15 years. So it's definitely not going to be as fast as what people are making out to be. It's not going to be as fast as ESPN is saying it is, but it's growing. And I always say when you have a rate of growth, that's always a good thing. I think the sleeper is with some of these secondary sports. We see, you know, the pickleball, I think cricket coming to the United States could be huge.

Steve Feuerstein (45:15.536)
huge massive.

brandon (45:16.689)
And we know cricket is huge, not to make any disrespect here, but it's not here in the States in a big way, but it could be. the same thing with rugby rugby is now making its way worldwide in a big way. you've seen formula one. I mean, you see now these seconds tier sports and they're certainly not second tier, but there's a lot of these other sports, these other leagues that are creating, they're starting to take, you know, a real position. I, you if I was like 25 years old.

Steve Feuerstein (45:19.482)
One of the biggest sports in the world.

brandon (45:45.585)
and looking to start my career, I would have no problem going to work for some of these smaller, newer leagues. Because sports is, people really love sports. And I don't think we understand the depth of the appetite that people have for it, not only in this country, but all over the world. So I wouldn't be afraid to go work in a new women's league. I wouldn't be afraid to go and maybe jump onto rugby that's coming into this country. As we see now, soccer is starting to fill out, which we never thought could even happen. But it's been 15, 20 years.

doesn't happen overnight. So if you're starting your career, I wouldn't be afraid to start with one of the small leagues, the pickleball, there's like five versions of pickleball now that are coming out that certainly has some potential, those kinds of things.

Steve Feuerstein (46:28.08)
Brilliant, Brendan. Having spent 13 years in the Far East and seeing cricket up front and personal, I think your analogy of cricket being today what MLS was 20 years ago, I think is probably the most spot on for any spot on observation for anyone looking to get in this business or capitalize over the next 20 years. I do think cricket will come close, perhaps not at the level of what MLS is today or global soccer, but look, global cricket is global soccer for so many countries around the world.

With that said, listen, more fun than I anticipated. Great seeing you again. It was a pure pleasure. Brandon Steiner, thank you. We're gonna have you again on the transaction report. Great seeing you, Brandon. Bye bye.

brandon (47:03.621)
Thanks for having me. Look forward to coming back. Have a great day. Thank you.

Thanks.

brandon (47:19.985)
Thanks man, appreciate you.

brandon (47:24.965)
I'm gonna roll, I'm gonna run.